I have a doubt, can anyone clarify (naanga Dharumi paramparai, kelvi kekka mattum than theriyum :) )
Thiruvaalar Venkatesh udhavuvarnu ninaikiren.
I browsed through Sundarar's devaram(just the initial few devarams). I find that in every set of Hyms, in the last stanza he says something like , aarooran sonna intha patta padicha adhu kidaikkum, ithu kidaikkum nu. I have also heard that Sambandhar Devaram is also like this, like in every poem he says, Sambandhan aruliya, something of this sort. Appar and Sambadhar devaram innum padikala(padikanumnu oru long term plan vechiruken, first sundarara attack pannaren).
I somehow feel, its odd..I dont doubt their bakthi or I even dont doubt that, if anyone prays like that wholeheartedly, surely they will get what they want. But they themselves saying that their poems are manthirams which can get things done for the reciter, koncham overa ella...I didnt come across any such thing in Tiruvasagam.
And another doubt is, why these samayak kuravargal, calls themselves "naayeen". nay enna avvalavu kevalamana mirugama? adhu nandriyulla prani ache...
Any idea, or reason why Sambandar or sundarar adopted this approach.
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Thanks for your inputs. Yes Sivapuram says that, but it doesnt appear in all of Manickavasagars poems. Only once in a while it might appear. That too he is not telling Vaadavooran solliya or manivasagan solliya etc. He says is in a generic way, "solliya pattin porul unarndhu solluvar...".
But Sundarar says this in every devarappadigam.
My question, reg. naai was pertaining to all the four, not alone sundarar...
> its like saying ...".. annan yaaru theriyumla... naan sonennu > sollu...." type!!!!
Thats really good. :) en questione athan saar. ipper patta bakthimangal en tharperumai (?) adithu kolla vendum? Manivasagar appadi seyalanu nenaikaren, athavadhu "naan sonnenu sollu..." type...
I really like the way you interlink things and quote from different texts. I envy your vast knowledge.
enakku niraiya knowledge irukkunnu oru poiyya solli, ennai idhuku mela pesa vudaame pannitiye baa..... naayamaa idhu????
sundarar may be konjam altaappu pervazhiyaa irukkalaam... that is why he calls aadipureeswar for "poisaatchi".. this is celebrated as "magizhadi sevai " in Tiruvotriyur every year....
mathavanga ellaam kashtapattu kailasam ponaa indha aaalu mattum "Airavatam " mela eri kailaasam poraaru.... edho oru "ullkuththu " irukkudhu idhula.....
enna edhunnu peeraanju dhaan paakkanum.....
or may be somebody who came later might have, due to the high regard he had for the kuruvar's added these extra fittings to the original verses also....
enakku niraiya knowledge irukkunnu oru poiyya solli, ennai idhuku mela pesa vudaame pannitiye baa..... naayamaa idhu????
sundarar may be konjam altaappu pervazhiyaa irukkalaam... that is why he calls aadipureeswar for "poisaatchi".. this is celebrated as "magizhadi sevai " in Tiruvotriyur every year....
mathavanga ellaam kashtapattu kailasam ponaa indha aaalu mattum "Airavatam " mela eri kailaasam poraaru.... edho oru "ullkuththu " irukkudhu idhula.....
enna edhunnu peeraanju dhaan paakkanum.....
or may be somebody who came later might have, due to the high regard he had for the kuruvar's added these extra fittings to the original verses also....
> I somehow feel, its odd..I dont doubt their bakthi or I even dont doubt that, if anyone prays like that wholeheartedly, surely they will get what they want. But they themselves saying that their poems are manthirams which can get things done for the reciter, koncham overa ella...I didnt come across any such thing in Tiruvasagam.
Not only Sundarar and Sambandar almost all those wrote seemed to have followed this. At the end of 'Thiruppavai' and 'Varanamayiram', Andal also tells similarly.
"... kurukoor sadagOpan sonna, paadal Or aayiraththuL ivaiyum Or patthum... ... veedum peRutthiththan moovulakukkum tharum oru naayagamE"
In fact Nammazhwar says at the end of every ten songs (thurvaimozhi is segregated as ondram pathu, irandam pathu etc.) that, "if one understands and sings ten pasurams out of the thousand I've sung, mukthi is assured."
every slokam has something called as " palasruthi" at the end of it....
they may not be the original ones .. but added due to the parayana murai...
For instance, vishnu sahasranamam starts with "sukhlam baradharam vishnum....( may not be the case with some school of rendition"....
but the original sahasranam starts with "Viswam vishnur vashatkaaro..." (mukkoor ezhudhina kuraionrumillai padikkanum idhukku artham puriyaradhukku)...
also there is something called as palasrudhi.."... vedhaandhako brahmanassyaath.. kshayathriyo vijayee bavedh....."
the original sahasranamam starts with "viswam vishnur..." this is where the "Dhyanam " starts and ends before the palsrudhi...
so , it is possible that somebody who came later, might have added palasrudhi's like the above to all the tamizh paakkal.....
But, even after saying tey will get this fruits after the recitation, how many recite devarams and pasurams? Only when 7 anda half or Ashtmathu Shani or Guru, many people recite, "Kolaru pathigam". This initially may have materialistic, intentions, but soon lead to desireless state.
Even many Sanskrit slokas have 'Phalashruthi' at last.
I once initiated a spinster on a mantra 'Swayamvara Kalyani'. He was longing to get married, Gunavathi. She got married soon, when I asked her about her chanting of matra after a year after her wedding, she replied' It was this mantra, that fetched me a good husband. And I found this mantra helps me in all aspects of my life. When ever I am in trouble, I chant this, and I find a solution'.
So, though initially, her motive was to get married. Then it has become different. People, will then chant matra for a pleasure of chanting it, without expecting anything.
Next is 'summa iruthal'. Each and everything need to have a attraction at begining.
Why is god having a Alankara in temples. Wil someone look at him, when he always looks shabby? This is practicality. Every one loves to look at Thayar at Alamelumangapuram, Mylai Kabali, Sikkal singara velan etc. because of this attraction. first step is to atract, and then arrest.
Hi Sathish, The Lord shiva who gives even Itself for the one who completely surrenders to It and serves selflessly, takes care of such a devotee in all the ups and downs of the life leading the devotee to the liberation. That would be the ultimate boon. Still people look for some helping hand when they are in some deep trouble. Many get mislead also going behind miracle performers and get cheated many times. The result is more pain than the temporary well being they get. The shaivite saints have sung the holy hymns - in a great spiritual wisdom and seeking only the Truth. The splendid powerfulwords ( mantram) and the unadultrated devotion on Lord shiva being the base these hymns give the great cure for many of the sufferings in life. Instead of looking for unreliable sources for betterment one should seek devaaram path which apart from giving the benefit would slowly lead one to be set in the path towards the Almighty. Even those who do devotion without asking for returns would find these to be very enchanting hymns.
These t are for masses to elites, simple devotees to great yogis, are for married people as well for ascetic. Because they have all the elements the people of various states would look for. While the honey dipped words of thiruvAchakam that just is nothing but pure devotion and surrender, thirumandhiram is a marvelous text on the sophisticated concepts of yoga shastram. The thiruththANdakams of appar perumAn are very simple to pass rich concepts even to masses and there are some hymns from champan^dhar that dwells in the beauties of grammar and music. These have the songs praying for good family and maaterial life at the same time those of devotees like pattinaththAr who praise the ascetic life against the married !
there are songs in sundarar thevaram which curse lord shiva (vaalnthu poothiirE) there are songs where the saints threaten god
and not to be left behind i remember a sundarar thevaram where he does a mimicry of jain songs( naiyaandi)
but overall promises of better things to come in these songs have to be seen in the context of frequent religious conversions in those days. even god has to be marketed perhaps
But unless moovar guarantee the results no one will recite it correct. I cannot say, chant this hymn and you will get enough money for 7 generations. And obviously everyone will care the damn for it.
People, must have known the meanings very well, those times, as the songs were also on Great immortal Tamil.
Even know, people knew, chanting any mantra or Hymns can get them freedom from Navagrahas, but they tend to begin with `Kolarupathigam'. Correct?
On `Porul Unarnthu Kooruvar', I differ in my view. For me, God is very compassionate to grant people, what ever they want, even if they chant without knowing its meaning. But, also, to an atheist who is good, this is a different discussion, and let me not get into it.
There is a story in Devi Bhagavatam, on Satyavrathan. He chants, one of the Bheejaksharas (Kaamabheejam), unknowing its importance. People used to call him `Kleeban' (Fool) and he picked up Kaamabheejam from this. But, Goddess Durga Devi, recognizes his act, and make him a rishi like Valmiki. This is because he is very good and acts on path of `saanraanmai'.
In my personal opinion, there are many issues to stop us from doing a good act, But only one is required to start it, that is `Will'.
"Aakasaath padhidhanthoyam yatha gachchathi saagaram.. sarva devam namaskaaraha kesavam prathigachchathih".....
chinna vayasula naan kooda similar kadhai onru padichirukken
one hunter in search of game went to the forest but cud not find one.. so he sat on a tree the whole night waiting for the prey.... but he did not know that it was vilva maram to spend time he started plucking the leaves and dropping it and lo! below was a sivalingam.. the vilva leaves were dropping on the sivalingam and it was also the sivaratri night.....
as usual our sthothrapriyan was happy and the hunter was born as a great king in the next janmam ( i dont remember the king's name)... this means even though you do do unknowingly, you will get the result of your good deed.....
vara vara PS group has become spiritual group!!! nadappadhu naaranan seyal.....
actually i mentioned thiruvengadu thevaram and sambandars suggestion because i thought it was rare.( actually not many promises are bade by the samaya kuravars)