Dear Satish, Civility and Nobleness are individual qualities.... I stopped argueing and commenting because I knew I was hitting my head against a brick wall I didnt want to hurt myself...
You can think of me as any state's Governer you fancy But I think an apology is inorder for a statement like that...
What you believe in is your birth right and mine !! Like kamal said lets agree to disagree...But dragging families may be permitted in other groups but not in this group
I have cited a conersation in a different group earlier and warned that we shouldnt get to that state....
As far all the Christian and Muslim and Other members of this group I really admire them for their silence and resilience....
I remember a member stating That but for Periyar and Dravida Iyakkam he would not be chatting in the internet with all the education he has.....I dont Know if he's still a member....
Misqouting someone who created the word Harijan Children of God and statting he practices Untouchability and Casteism I am not argueing....
Bringing family and personal insults is like cheap political gimmicks!!!
I thank Veena for showing a sensible restraint!!!
I am happy that all this mudslinging has brought out queit a lot of our members to counter and advice rightly to stop this silly banter
I am chasing an answer to Where does the Religious Fanaticism stop....
I ll cite an example from PS In the days of Saivite Vaishnavite Potti....There was a Vaishnavite who was going next to Thiruvanaikaval temple and a crow pushed a bit of rock from the stone on the Vaishnavar who started to bleed>>>> His response was Srirangathu Veeravaishnava Kaakaiye intha Sivan koyilai nandraga odithu Thallu..... Thats where religious fanaticism will stop!!!
I would be sorry to loose a good member and a intense active knowledgable person but Satish personal insults do not figure in this group.....
We have lost lots of active members due to these sort of badgering.....I think its the groups loss for one individuals belief and pedanticity
I would be grateful if you could show some civilty and retract your statement to Veena....
I did not censure when Priya went on about eating beef>...I did not censure when some of us were being quoted as religious illeterate....
But dragging someone's mother in a stupid arguement is something I will not permitt as a Hindu I dont know what you ..
If you choose not apologise then I am resigning as a moderator or may be even leave this group!!!
My two cents: I think in any group, esp in an online one, people tend to get carried away, get more than a little emotional and start taking things personally. I do agree with you that sometimes, it crosses limits and gets into dangerous territory but please do not think about resigning as moderator/or from the group as a result of silly rantings from any of us. Its not worth it!
A serious discussion went on religion and finally it came to an end with various twists and turns with bad feelings,hurt hearts and emotional sparks flying abound.Many group members who werent posting for a long time asked this debate to be ended.Many felt this debate to be bad,political and something which is avoidable,taboo and so on.
Anyway earlier I said that I gave my last word on this and I stick to it.I am not gonna add fuel to the fire,but I see some of my friends feeling very bad about this issue-Dr.Sridhar,Veena and many others who requested this debate to end.
My words to Dr.Sridhar is "Dont feel bad.You are an invaluble member to this group.So dont talk about resigning and staying away.We all are brothers and misunderstnading is common in a family."
My words to Veena is "I find your opinions rational and thoughtful and you debated in a very civilized manner.If you were hurt for any reasons, well dont,be cool-I know you will stay cool.In passionate debates which challenge the fundamental faith of a person-sparks will fly.You debated well."
My words to other members who were fed up with this religious stuff and feel that it was useless,divisive,vithupertaive,vitriolic (I'm running out of adjectives) is as follows.
This debate will not leave you.It will chase you in elections,media,friends circle,tea shop benches etc.Today our country- if not the world is divided on this right Vs. Left debate.This debate catapulted Bush to the throne for a second time,put ali-sistani in throne in iraq,threatens palestinians and israelis,divides india into NDA VS UPA,decides the future of many major industrial giants(chik-fil-A,EXXON-MOBIL) makes hollowood fill its coffers (passion of christ) threatens scientists( creationism vs evolution),divides judiciary(10 commandments in courts debate)and decides best seller of the year(davinci code)
Introspection? Do we have to introspect when it comes to observing etiqutettes? If the objective of this group is to share a passion of history and heritage and NOT to be biased to or influenced by any idealogy, arent we supposed to observe a few ground rules? And there has to be no pleading or negotiating in observing ground rules.
I have seen this trend repeatedly in groups involving Indians. They carry more passion than substance, and even the few articles that hint substance is seldom supported by cogent evidence or analysis. Our enthusiasm is disproportionately large compared to the hard work we put in to seek truth. I can blame this to an overdose of convent education, too much time at the PCs without the interest to do the research, lack of proper academic training as we continue to be bad amateurs and a tendency to succumb to idealogues.
One other ominous trend is you will always see a dude trying to take every discussion on any topic to hindu persecution and hindutva renaissance. He will always be angry with Alauddin Khilji for desecrating Madurai temple and will not forgive him in a million years. This fellow is also bleached with a falsification of his religion and misplaced nationalism and is emotionally misinterprets history and refuses to see both sides of the coin. He turns the discussion into a monologue, fails to listen and if you try to talk sense into him, gets vitriolic. Maybe people like him existed since Dayanand Saraswati, but they have become bold and ubiquitous with the advent of internet.
I'd suggest that the moderator(s) inspects every mail before they get published here and keep the discussions focused, objective, and encourage people who share or seek knowledge.
I'd suggest that the moderator(s) inspects every mail before they get published here and keep the discussions focused, objective, and encourage people who share or seek knowledge.
Unfortunately thats not practical due to time constraints If I had hours in a day....Yes I will do it
Thank you once again for the pearls of wisdom as always. > > Re Touching by the Great Personalities : > > i) Yogi Ramsurat Kumar - passed away with some sickness. > ii) Ramana Maharishi - .. do .. > iii) Mahaswami ... do .. > May the great souls rest in peace
> Ram - was perfectly right. Interesting other topics would have got lost in > the cross fire. We have so much to share in the Group. > I can list what all wew have lost in this cross fire or maybe I should call it freindly fire!!!!
The timeline of Kadaram and ganagi conquests of Rajendra The beautiful shoreline archeology which mR Kasirajan had provided The dress habits of Chola Queens
> We can light a lamp in her memory .. May be Two : One for Kalki and one for Ananthi. > I totally agree
Dear Dr Sridhar I am sorry to inform that i have wound up Sudharsanam and the Cultural Atlkas is yet to take of; both happened (or not happened) because the public don't consider that these are important, perhaps. with best wishes to our young friends Swaminathan
For the most part, I am on the same side of the fence as you are here but there are a couple of places where I think you succumb to some generalization. Couldn't resist bringing that up.
First of all, this is an open forum. Whether the moderator has the time to read every mail before posting is besides the point. I, for one, do not think that the moderator(whoever he is) should monitor posts before publishing them. The idea of free speech/expression is something that this 'open' forum guarantees all of us and I agree with you abt observing etiquettes but reading/curbing posts is definitely not my idea of enforcing it. In ACLU terms, I'd call it a First Amendment Violation :)
I also think you are generalizing when you say that you see this trend is groups mostly involving Indians. As someone who belongs to quite a few Indian / S Asian / world literature / culture groups, my experience has not been quite the same. There are 'over-enthusiastic' people in every group and then there are some who provide well- thought of analyses, regardless of whatever culture they belong to.
Even if we assume for a moment that you are right abt this, how can you attribute it to an overdose of convent education and a lack of academic training? When did convent education had anything to do with whether a person can think logically or not? (Other than the obvious religious part of it ofcourse!)
Again, my intention is not to start another argument here. As I said, I am completely with you in the need for observing etiquette and/or providing cogent analyses but couldn't help thinking that you are generalizing a bit too much.
Thanks much for your concern and kind words. But no, my feelings def weren't hurt by anything that happened in this forum. If we all start feeling bad listening to everyone who walks the streets(of the Internet or otherwise), we will never get anything productive done!
You are so right in that this debate will go on everywhere. As far as mankind exists there will always be conservatives and liberals and there is really no way to get out of it.
Dear Krupa I am heartened by your concern of closing down Sudharsanam. I am keeping the Pudukkottai.org. Please visit the site and offer suggestions.
I am on a six-month visit to the US. I am staying in the Bay Area. (If there are PS mmebers in the Bay area i would be delighted to meet them.)
Here I have given a lecture on the Story of Scripts. The programme was arranged by the Bay Area Tami Manram. They are proposing to arrange series to cover the following topics. 1. Ajanta Paintings - An Overview (A slide-show) 2. On A Project Proposal for Preserving the Paintings of Sittannavasal and the Jains Contribution to Tamil Culture. 3. Tamil Isai and Karantic Music: A lecture demonstration with participation of my wife 4. Oral Traditions of India and Sanskrit: A lecture demonstration with participation of my wife 5. An Introduction to Ancient Tamil Literature with Selections from Kurunthokai and Tirukkural 6. On the special features of Tamil poetical strcture (Yappu)
I will also be devotong an evening to explain the content of the recently publishes book by Iravatham Mahadevan on the Tamil-Brahmi and Early Vattezhuttu.
The Tamil Manram is also finding our idea of Cultural Atlas of Tamilnadu interesting. May be we can revive and work on it.
May I request the new members to to visit www.pudukkottai.org and also details aabout me in www.pudukkottai.org/swaminathan.
I didnt check my mails for the past few days and did only now. Was really shocked. I think the very next statement in my mail was an open apology, not once but twice. If thats not enough, I dont have any reservations to ask for an open apology.
Veena and others, if I have crossed my limts, kodanu kodi namaskarangaludan, en mannaipai kettu kolkiren.
Sri,
I appreciate you as a moderator. My character is, I never feel bad to accept the mistakes and never feel bad to protest for what is wrong. When something goes wrong, I am the first to protest. As in this case, this nature of mine has earned me only wrong name right from my shcool days, but i never regreted that. Incidently, I am reading vivekandas karma yoga and I fell very happy to read that its a humans duty to fight against the adharma. So I never leave a chance to fight when something goes wrong. If thats not acceptable to others, I dont feel bad to apologies, like I have did now.
But I assure you I am not a coward to run away from such incidents. If you push me out, thats your right to do so. I am not going to loose anything.
Anyway, once again my heartfelt apologies to one and all.
Satish PS: again I have not read any other mails further and thought will reply this immediately. If any mails had followed on the same thread, I like to say that this mail stands as a reply to those mails also.