Yes Sri. when my friend fwd this link, I started reading it as any other article, but when I read that paragraph, where the Greek , Roman cultures demise were discussed, I remembered your words. Hence thought of forwarding it to the group.
I am not sure whether to share this in the group....but still.... I heard from one of my close associates, who attended this meeting on Feb 18th, refered in the article, at the Music academy, that the top brass of RSS (dont want to mention the name) told that, many congress leaders themselves come to them and openly say that, what you are doing is a great service and org. like yours should exists for the protection of Hinduism. But they are reluctant to talk this openly because of theri "pozhappu"....pinacle of pseudo-secularism.-:)
Ofcourse we most definitely need organizations which among other things destroy mosques and burn people on the streets. Otherwise how will Hinduism ever survive?
If your solution for centuries old barbarism is current-day barbarism, I really do not think that I have anything more to say to you. Some wise man once said that "those who forget their history (past) are condemned to repeat it". He probably did not realise that we will repeat it anyways.
Its very easy to stand in the middle and criticize both groups and using statements like "I condemn violence on both sides.Let justice prevail".It unfortunately isnt a solution to the problem.Now if you want to condemn these 2 groups or 1 groups you can start off by saying your unequivocal opinion on
1.what should come in ramajanmaboomi?A mosque or temple? 2.What to do about mathura and kasi? 3.should the common civil code be accepted or not? 4.If minorities vote as a vote bank what shall the majority do? 5.can the government favour minorities on starting educational institutions and hospitals? 6.Is it legal,ethical to propogate religion in schools run by minorities to majority children? 7.should a law enacted to prevent conversion by giving money and coercion?
If you solve these problems amicably there is no need for VHP or RSS.So can you come out with your opinion on these issues?Dont take the middle stand like "I dont know (or) let them solve this by talks (or) all is politics and vote gathering tactics".It is diplomatic,but unfortunately doesnt solve these problems.So can you give your opinions regarding these problems?
I might have to censure a few of the writings mind you ..you are writing in an educated forum and not barter centre...
If all the humanity started to raze things down because they were built on some ones heritage all we ll have is emptiness...
We claim ram was born here and krishna was born here ...and want to bring down man made structures and claim it as sucess in my opinion its just foolhardy attitute because you cannot stem the almighty to one place
If the celtics and american natives start demoloishing things then there would be no usa no uk but they were literally anniliated
Hinduism didnt survive by warriors it didnt spread by crusaders it did stand the test of time by a small gropu who think that if they adopt the unhumanly attitute of other militant religions they will flourish they are wrong
the biggest loss to christianity was crusaders who pillaged in the name of god the same applies to the muslim invaders because they justified it on punishing the infidels...
now we are following suit...if you are that much concerned about your heritage creat a uniform society...and people will follow you.....
violence is not the way!!! You can now sit on your sofas and criticise gandhi but lets not forget he made an empire bow down and accept defeat by non violence
If you really want to spread hinduism love thyself and love thy neighbour thats the hindu way of life
edho ariyaa paiyyan theriyaama pesitten.. pls get me that... what i was trying to ponder was that, why sudden interest in "Bande mataram, Janagana mana and other Saffron stuff"???
any serious image makeover / reinvention about to happen in this group??? left baffled!!!!
With due regards to Mr.Diwakar... As far as I am concerned, every HUMAN BEING should have some concern towards our society.
> What's happ in PS Group??? enna dhideernnu samoogathu mela ivvalavu akkarai???? > What do you think is the purpose of PS group? I was thinking its to safegaurd our history. For whom? ofcourse for the society. Then if we take your stand that "samoogathu mela akkaraye vendam" then we can dissolve this group.
> is somebody going to contest any election????
I have never heard about any politician who has akkarai in the samoogam.. > > Sampath ji!!! unga velaiyay PS Groupla yum start pannittengala??? > ah! this is the fate of Hindus. If someone talks nyayam in favour of hindus, then he is an outcast....
> > 1.what should come in ramajanmaboomi?A mosque or temple? > 2.What to do about mathura and kasi? > 3.should the common civil code be accepted or not? > 4.If minorities vote as a vote bank what shall the majority do? > 5.can the government favour minorities on starting educational > institutions and hospitals? > 6.Is it legal,ethical to propogate religion in schools run by > minorities to majority children? > 7.should a law enacted to prevent conversion by giving money and > coercion?
Well said Sampath. I personally feel that, in this group, you are one of those very few who writes with a punch upto the point.
Veena madam,
How many Mosques do know, which Hindu organizations have demolished? Can you please list them? I am seriously asking with utmost ignorance. Because as far as I know the list is...
1. Babri Masjid. 2........
I cant remember any second incident, let it be in the recent past, or let it be in the history of independent India, or the history of 1000 years of muslim presence in India.
The list of Temples, destroyed by Muslims in Kashmir alone..repeat Kashmir alone is more than 1500 and that too in just two decades...I am not counting any of the temples destroyed by them int he past 1000 years of history.People like you talk and condemn about Babri masjid demolition, because it was broadcast live in BBC. The demolition of temples are not shown and hence no one talks about it. The media is playing a spoilsport in corrupting the indian brains and you are no exception
Org. like VHP, RSS, etc. should exist to safegaurd the rights of Hindus. If not for these org. India would have officially become a Muslim country by now.
Its generally considered that Politicians alone ruin the country by such talks. But.........
For your information, it was RSS who first went to help the Tsunami victims. 9.35 Tsunami struck, 10.30 RSS was ready with their tent and relief camps with medical aids. All the district collectors personally called up the regional RSS cheifs for help. All the govt. machinaries greatly depended on RSS for the relief service. Seva Bharathi, the service wing of RSS has cleared more than 3500 dead bodies in Tamil Nadu alone, where as the total in TN was more than 10000. All the govt. officials personally appreciated the RSS but no one is ready to talk openly, again for "pozhappu" reasons. Even SUN TV could not avoid covering RSS, because in one worst affected place (I think colochal) after one week when the bodies decomposed, no one went near to clean it. Only RSS folks went to clear it up which the SUN TV cameraman shot. As soon as they knew that it was RSS(it will be obvious from theri kakhi short uniform) they stopped shooting it and only a few seconds of the scene was broadcst in SUN TV. This is tip of the iceberg of service rendered by RSS. They played a great role in Gujarat earthquake as well. RSS is well know for its selfless service and anyone not accepting is totally inhuman.
But what are the other minority charity org. doing? They kept quite till all was over. Slowly they have set up tents with a van and lots of money. They are converting all the victims to christianity(its said that Muslims convert by sword and christians convert by money) Make shift churches have already spurted even before the victims could get a shelter. Mass conversions by Christians and Muslims are a common sight in these areas. But no media publishes this. No one will ever talk about. Even last month, in Madurai, for road extension purpose, the corporation destructed all unauthorised buildings which includes more than 40 temples, one church and one mosque. The media reported about the destruction of only the church and the christians protest. But very little importance was given to the 40+ temple. For public cause any thing should be destructed. Let it be temple or church or mosque. Why is that the church so special and 40+ temples are not? will you question them? Only to raise such question we need org. like RSS or VHP.
I am not a RSS person, nor I have any connection with RSS or any other Hindu org. But people should know the truth. Babri masjid is an exception. Exceptions do occur. One black mark in 1000 years cannot be compared to the endless brutalities committed by the Muslims. Please be aware that Islamic nations are trying to carve a new Mughalistan out of the norther India and Christian countries are targetting to convert each Indian as christian by end of 2100. Their mission is to have atleast one church in every street. Due to the political scenario in our country and marxist,communist way of thinking we people have, they will easily succeed in their mission, even before 2100.
We have been fools without samooga akkarai all these years. Lets atleast wake up. Hindus never ask the other communities to quit. They only ask for a peaceful coexistance, which is being denied to the majorities. Hope people realise this and keep up the spirit of Hinduism.
I wrote just like that... didn't expect such serious replies. Vaazhga ungal samooga Akkarai....
Reg. Ps Group Objective, ..... Thought PS Group obj was to discuss history... now i think it has much more to it than just rephrasing/ rendition of History.
Inge pirachanaiye adhu dhaan..... whenever i talk, controversy erupts... have to keep quiet....
but anyhow unga kovam gnayamaanadhu dhaan... all the best
> I wrote just like that... didn't expect such serious replies. Vaazhga ungal samooga Akkarai.... > > Reg. Ps Group Objective, ..... Thought PS Group obj was to discuss history... now i think it has much more to it than just rephrasing/ rendition of History. > > Inge pirachanaiye adhu dhaan..... whenever i talk, controversy erupts... have to keep quiet.... > > but anyhow unga kovam gnayamaanadhu dhaan... all the best > > Sampathji,,, don't forget my computer.... > > With regards > > B. Dhiwakar >
This is the problem with our people. Unless we talk our views, we cant get clarifications. I dont have anything personal with you.
And I am no one to redefine PS Groups objective. What I tried to mean is that without a social cause nothing happens/should happen and I quoted PS as an example. We discuss about history only to preserve and give the right history to the samoogam. Likewise we personally should also have some samooga akkarai. Blindling accepting the media and the politians is no good. And that mail was not intended only to you but also to veena, and all others in the group.
Atleast you accept that my kovam is nyayamanadhu. I am happy for that and thanks.
Dont keep quite. Unless people talk nothing can happen in the group. Repeating SPS words, we are a matured group who can discuss and handle anything.
request you to please refer my postings during late 2003 and early 2004.
pls also note that people in this group would not accept just what the media and politicians say..... kavalaiye padaadheenga.... ellaarum indha groupla are masters in their own right
> > pls also note that people in this group would not accept just what the media and politicians say..... kavalaiye padaadheenga.... ellaarum indha groupla are masters in their own right >
My personal views in these issues are besides the point. It doesn't pertain to this discussion. But since you ask, I really don't care whether anyone builds a temple or mosque in Ayodhya - to me, spirituality is not about going to temples. Any thinking Indian would support a uniform civil code and I am no exception. As for votebank politics, there are too many dimensions to it - we all very well know that in S Tamilnadu, its complete castebank politics, I do not want to get into that issue at all. I am neutral abt conversion laws (though I find the idea of conversion(to any religion) quite stupid) as I don't think anyone has defined what exactly amounts to coercion. If it was left to me, I'd def have religion stay out of schools but then people like you would all me a 'secularist'(a term which I am quite proud of btw).
But the point of this discussion was the kind of fanaticism and violence resorted to by parties like the RSS(I am well aware its counterparts exists on the other side) and whether that was justified. Its important to understand that almost every democratic country in the world grants certain concessions to its minorities and to historically oppressed people for very obvious and pertinent reasons. And almost in every single case, there are issues that the majority or the other side has in this regard - some of these issues are extremely valid too but feeding people hate, destroying mosques and burning people on the streets on Gujarat or anywhere else is neither an acceptable nor a viable solution. You seem to somehow suggest that the RSS/VHP tactics are necessary to solve the issues that you bring up - well, they obviously have not worked(as we can all see) and they have only caused more harm to everyone concerned. At the risk of being called a pacifist(another term which I am quite proud of), let me remind you that violence only breeds more violence. It might be acceptable to you but not to me. If you actually want to make changes in policy, the last thing you would do in any democratic country is resort to violence.
End of discussion(from my side, atleast) as we will only end up saying the same things over and over again.
Dear Veena Thank you You have beutifully and succintly said what I would have said thank you We indians are a minority in UK and USA and we are frowned upon...Our kids and us are called Bloody Pakis(which any proud Indian will detest) But lately we are called Srilankans thank to the pains of our Eelam brothers and their emigration to the West anyone whos dark and short and speaks tamil is Srilanka!!! Tony blair wanted to conduct RamaNavami Celebrations in West Minster!!Is that a triumph of Hinduism or Minority appeasement politics...The asian votebank is powerful and Indian businessmen cough the money....the buck stops there!!!
Sampath Hinduism is a way of life you do not protect it you do not preserve it and spread it it will do so It has done so all these years without Advanis and Sudarshans and it will do so when the whole world is turning agnostic!
Hinduism only suffered by the caste hindus and manusmrithi as accepted by priya vaishnava herself....
thats is as important cause for conversion as well as forceful conversion and many are for convenience for progression like sardars shaving their beards and others cutting their moustache and hairdos like the british.
Christianity came to India in 2 AD....Did it prevail? Islam came in 900-1100 AD Did it abolish hinduism? Did Hinduism go to malaysia and Kombodia and Vietnam because Swayamsevals carried the flag no people learned and accepted it.....
Have atleast three children???Most ridiculous suggestion by anybody sane in this time
Comparing Godse to Prithviraj Chuahan and Shivaji>>>>Thanks to that man there are people in India in some sections who eat and live like others and yet we admire and applaud those speeches because our memory is so short!!!
If Savarkar was so charismatic and great why didnt people just follow him like ants.....oh those ant like people were all congress stouges???
Admire people thats your right but dont slander others
I dont think we need to eloborate much on this because Veena has done such a beautiful response
Dear Satish History has happened!! You should accept and liver with that Malikafur killing and raping indian women is history Narasimhan destroying Vadapi is history asoka destroying kalinga is history
we have to live with those with a better future
If my Thooyatamil Ratham boils and I want to rase the Marathi and Telugu architechture in Big temple complex what will you guys say???
thats where we are heading as long as muslims,christians and communists they will be target then it will be various castes and it will be manusmrith because manu the first man had laid rules as to how to treat sudras and untouchables
Thats what fascists always lead to....
I want all the members to ponder on this thought a group of tamil purists removing all the maratha and telugu influence in Big temple....
They did invade and establish a different culture in Tamilnadu didnt they???
but they have become part of tamil culture and tamil history....its just how we see and accept things
or may be the RSS will want to remove the foreigners face removed from the northern face
We are taliking with statistics about the number of temples looted and women raped in kashmir and during ghori
But do you know that two hindu princes in north india had a bet who ll deflower most virgins in a year at the end of the year one prince proudly made a crown of the mukuthis nose ring he gathered(their custom was to place a mukhuthi when some came of age )
Every week in the Indian papers about Gangrapes and Village Rapes because an ourtcaste women drew water in the common well or walked in a main street where was the RSS then they are Indian women aswell
This is just mamiyar udacha man kodam marumaga udacha pon kudam
Satish and Sampath you proudly state Ayothya was the only temple???Are we proud where is the tolerance Oru panai palil or thuli kalanthalum visham vishamthan......
Gandhi influenced Hindusthani to become a national language!!!!So what the Hindi we are fighting today??(Ref Godse's Speech)
Maybe you would like Atom feeds if you dont like RSS. Even Blogger.com is now supporting Atom feeds. I personally favor RSS 2.0 feeds as it is more easier to parse.
Anyway, the problem is not with RSS by itself but with the content it delivers; it is a wonderful technology... and of course the interpretor that you use to interpret RSS counts.
I was like you a couple of years back, trying to blame the RSS/VHP/BJP for all the communal riots / killings etc.. But of late I am getting a bit hesitant..
It's sheer hypocrisy to call the "RSS" as communal and the "Muslim league" as secular. By trying to blame everything on RSS, we're missing a bigger picture. India is and will be secular because the majority are Hindus and I'm very happy for that and would like that to remain the same...
We should at the same time be concerned about the activities of entities like the Saudi funded "tableegi jammat" etc.. that tries to destroy the local culture and "arabise" every muslim. You can see that from the names and the dresses they wear etc..
So after all the terrorist incidents, I thought of learning somethings about islam and its supposed intolerance and find out if the allegations are really true.. I don't have many friends from the religion, but I have a few and they can hardly be classified as liberals..
If you have time, read this website from a department of an university in US that contains the authentic translations of Quran into english
Particularly the treatment of kafirs / slaves / women etc.. You can see that, Bin laden follows the teachings perfectly..
It's disgusting..
I get the same "disgusting" feeling when reading the so called "theivathin kural" from the kanchi mutt's website.. which condones "untouchability" and preaches "caste system" based on birth..
You are ofcourse entitled to your opinion just as I am entitled to mine! I'd only suggest that you refer to the Oxford Engligh dictionary to refer to the meaning on the words that you use before you brandish them. But I am sorry to say that the dictionary cannot help you with the concept of reasoning.
FYI - I cannot talk for Sridhar but I never called the Muslim League or any such org 'secular'. I think all of us very well know what extremes that certain Islamic orgs go to. All I was saying that you are def mistaken if you think that RSS/VHP is going to solve those issues. They might solve it near-term by burning people on the streets but it won't be long before the next train burns - it won't end.
Well, neither word looks innocent to me but hey, where's perspective?!
Anyways, I want to apologize for the last couple of posts I sent your way - I should have known better than to reply to emotional rantings but I got carried away, I guess. This has turned into some mudsliging contest which I am sure both of us are better off without!
Dear Naren Did I say ISI funded Islamic Groups are secular...Please dont assume...my boss says dont assume it makes an ASS of U & ME
I personally know the effects of these fundamentalist groups... I had a freind in College who was the college Sports Sec,Gen Sec Smart always in Vivaldi or raymonds and clean shaven....When he fracture his forearm the girls of the whole college signed in his plaster caste.... His father was the Hindu Muslim Ottrumai leader....He has attended Midnight mass on X mas and climbed Thirupathi ....by walk from kil thirupathi with us and came to the darshan....
3 years in Uk and the mosques now he wears a pathan suit a long beard skill cap and always reciting koran....
Another freind of mine from syria a learned Arab claims Islam is not what people say it is but I havent read koran...
So I know the impact it has....
Somebody said about Christians converting by education.....
These were verses I learnt in Don Bosco....These werent praising Jesus or Mary
So its easy to criticise....There are so many educated in this community thanks to christain missionary schools and colleges???
What were we HINDUs doing Running Gurukkuls exclusive for the elite!!!The rest oh its mun jenma karma vinai!!
Whats the percentage of schools in tamilnadu and what percentage of private schools are by Christain Missions???
How many of you are from Thanjavur??The KHS admission criteria was you have to a brahmin or FC What are the other options St Antonys St Peters,Blakes & Rajahs Govt School For Girls Sacred Heart,St Josephs St Peters Blakes Rajahs Govt School (I am talking about the eighties)
If converstion tactics worked 2/3 of thanjavur must be christians.......
all the schools and establishments I am talking about have been there for years not now... You can turn around and say british only permitted christian schools...but you know thts not true because the brits hat catholism and most of our schools during the raj were jesuits,italian and irish missionaries....
its in the same uniform civil code...Ms Vaishnava....The idea is not to discriminate among kids..a muslim girl sued the french govt becuase they said you cannot wear a pardha and go to school...another gorl sued the british school which prevented her from doing the same and lost the case....
In my Schools..Don bosco Thanjavur The Tamil Asiriyar was Heramban who cam with a nice thiruneer Pattai....The Biology Master was Rajagopal with a nice Amman kungumam
I can say the same for st Antony's as well...No body has said anything to me about my vibhuthi kungumam....please dont magnify things...
So please dont say minorities have sanction....
If that is the case we should really have a Mohamed school in every town That ll be minority appeasement
Please enough has been said about our gurukuls so lets not have a De javu
> Did I say ISI funded Islamic Groups are secular...Please dont assume...my boss says dont assume it makes an ASS of U & ME >
I think you misunderstood what i was trying to say.. I thought from your earlier mail you were referring to the RSS as "fascists"..
My reply was not to put the entire blame on RSS/VHP. I was talking about the "secular" Muslim league which is a part of the central government..
Do read the link that I mentioned in some spare time.. It's better to argue with facts and knowledge.. Like all the religious text there are some good parts and really bad ones.. (esp. about slaves/prisoners of war/women/kafirs/apostates)..
I have nothing to do with any of the religions.. and am not promoting one over the other..
My only concern is that we should NOT miss the bigger picture.. Valid questions raised by the VHP/RSS should not be brushed aside.
Naren Thanks If only I had 36 hours in a day ....I could do all the things I want... Interestingly I was reading on how Islam reached Malaysia nad Indonesia and the surprising bit was thru south indian traders and no kathi no rape just conversion.... its hard to believe after all the pains our people underwent....when islam reached our nation... Makes one wonder...
As for secular non secular justification I totally agree with you ... but violence only breeds violence Sri
Over nightla evvalavu mailaaa.......good debate. Welcome back priya, again with your punch.
All, I think no one read my mail and understood what I meant, esp. Veena. If my words gave a different meaning I plead apology. But I request you to go through it again. I never supported or said RSS/VHP thier voilence are correct. I only said, dont just take one incident of babri masjid, see alse the service they render to the society. I think this point is lost in the ether.
Veena, during Tsunami, ofcourse all the ngo's worked. But the first to reach out was RSS who singly contributed to 20% of the total effort. thats what I stressed. When you criticise them, you should also appreciate them for their good, if at all you are really neutral.But all the media highlighted all NGOs but not RSS. Is this democracy? Is this secularism? Thats what I tried to pointed out, but you see only in your view, stamping them to be extremists.
I think Samptha, Priya, and others have given valuable points,which I need not ponder again. I wrote this earlier, but since veena pointed out the burining of people on the streets of gujarat, I say this. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. RSS/Hindu org. reacted but I dont think they acted at any point of time. Veena, why you are not talking about the godhra carnage but only talk about the hindus burning muslims on the streets? This is the Marxist or rather anti-BJP talks. Its Gujrat communal clash, not a genocide. Communal clash means both communities suffer. If muslims weer burnt on the street, hindus should also would have burned on the streets. Its only that the mediat didnt publish it and published anti-hindu news alone. You are learned, try to think logically. If 2000 people die in a communal class, 50% on each side means 1000 hindus also died. simple arithmatic, right? Btw, I am not supporting what the Hindus did, nor support violence. I am just questioning, why you people talk only anti-hindu and are not neutral, why you dont condemn godhra carnage,but only condemn hindu acts alone...you need not answer me nor I expect an answer. Please try to answer yourSELF.
Veena, actually I wrote the words like, you have all the qualifications to become a politician, and then thought it might hurt you and erased it. But I fell laughing when you said I have all the qualification to be a RSS person. Thanks for the compliment and in your words, I feel proud to get such a complement.If you have read my last words of the mail, I clearly stated that the Hindu org never asked others to quit, but only pleading for the peaceful cooexistence. When its denied, as sampath stated, they emotionally turn to violence.
Dear Sri, your points are valid. I have never read the manusmrithi and so cant comment on it. But my feeling is if such bad things are there in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism would have swept away Hinduism. You yourself said, inspite of all invasion,culture or imperial, Hinduism survived. If many bad things were there, how come it survived. I feel its the misinterpretation of facts. Probably I am wrong, but I live it to you to think. If Hinduism is so bad, how come its surviving from time immemorial. Suppression will alwasy lead to revolution. Frech Revolution, Boston Tea party, breaking of the USSR etc. etc. We dont have any such instances in our country. If people were suppressed in the name of caste(I do accept there might be stray instances but we should not brand with stray instances)surely they should have revolted long back.Just give a thought.I am trying to thing logically. If you compress a baloon it will surely burst. Why didnt Hinduism burst if it had suppressions?
Supreme court has given judgement sometime back that only minorities can open institutions.Whats wrong in admitting only FC in an institution, if all other religion and other castes have their own institution. I am hearing this for the first time. Where will the FC's go if they cant get admission in the name of reservation? Why dont you point out that minority institutions admit only minorities. Dont say they also admit Hindus, it will happen only if you have high recomendation. I studied in Loyola college chennai and I know their admission procedure. If you had said that all institutions should admit based on merit or the govt. prescribed reservation policy I would have been happy. But pointing out one institution which admits FCs, when the country is flooded with 1000s of minority institutions and jathi based instititutions admitting their clan, your point looses its base.
Re. Christian institutions converting. I appreciate the western countries and the missionaries a lot. They are great strategists. They are not aiming and immediate conversion. They have a 100 or 1000 year plan, which started 300 years back. They started by slowing getting involved in social activities, setting up schools, colleges etc.by which they can infiltrate the society. Today celebrating birthdays by cutting cakes (I think we Hindus only go by natchatiram and not by date..), celebrating christmas, new year, valentines day,mothers day, fathers day, etc etc. the influence of christian life style. Though we had all these in our culture itself, we adopted western culture. Without our knowledge we lost our culture. Once culture is lost, its easy to break the religion. Well planned, well executed converson strategy, which is still going on. But on the outset we cant find it out. I am sure you will criticize me for this saying I am going nuts thinking crazy, but I seriously think in this angle, which is agreat threat to our society. So we cant blindly say, christians run schools just for the societies cause.It has its own internal agenda. Why should a school have a church inside? every christian school will have a church and you should be knowing it. If only education is their motto why church inside the premisis?
I am wondering, if in such a small group itself, talking in favour of Hindus is fanatism what about at the country level...my god..
Such debates can never end, and no one cn change others opinions. But being humans we should be able to correct oursleves, by retrospecting and knowing what is right and what is wrong. Let it be you or me...we should not just go by the band wagon effect.If my views are wrong I am alwasy ready to change.......
For the past two-three days, there has been a lot of mails flying as to who is correct and who is wrong, not from a historical perspective, but more from a society and communal perspective.
If I sound a bit harsh, please do excuse me...I do not intend to show any disrespect or insult anybody here...
But in this discussion, are we not forgetting the primary purpose for which this group has been created? Has not this group been created for trying to understand our history and the beauty of our great nation? Why then, my friends this amount of mudslinging? So what if people came from abroad and tried to dominate or rule us? Have'nt we over come them with the most powerful weapon...that of love? Are we here to discuss who is greater...the Hindu, the Muslim or the Christian? Or are we here to discuss the beautiful history that all of them have left us with?
Each and every one of you have mentioned points that are valid....but again from whose points of view? Are'nt all of us here Indians? So, why forget the primary objective of this group and argue about something that is not related to the focus of this group here. Let us all concentrate on learning from each other as we have been for the past so many days.....PLEASE I BEG YOU...!!!!
Last but not the least, I would like share with you all, something I read from the Agathiyar group......
If we reduce the population of the Earth to a small town with 100 people and keep the proportions, it will look like this:
6 people would own 59% of the whole world wealth and all of them will be from the United States of America
80 would have bad living conditions 70 will be uneducated 50 will be underfed 1 would die 2 would be born 1 will have a computer 1 (only one) will have higher education
If you look at the world from this point of view, you will see how there is a big need of solidarity, understanding, patience and education.
Also think about the following: If this morning you've woke up healthy, you are happier then 1 million people that will not survive next week.
If you never suffered a war, the loneliness of the jail cell, the agony of torture, or hunger,
you are happier than 500 million people in the world. If you can enter into a church (mosque) without fear of jail or death, you are happier than 3 million people in the world.
If there is a food in your fridge, you have shoes and clothes, you have bed and a roof, you are richer than 75% of the people in the world.
If you have bank account, money in your wallet and some coins in the money-box, you belong to the 8% of the people on the world, which are well-to-do.
If you read this you are three times more blessed because:
1. somebody just thought of you. 2. you don't belong to the 200 million people that cannot read. 3. and... you have a computer!
As somebody once said:
- work as if you don't need money, - love as if nobody had ever hurt you, - dance, as if nobody can see you, sing, as if nobody can hear you, - live, as if the Earth was a heaven."
So let us all remember that there is no weapon on earth that can defeat the power of LOVE...!!!
I again apologise if any of you here felt insulted or hurt by this message....!It was unintentional..!
No one will take your words wrong. Dont worry. Hope you know that our group is used to such debates (Fights? -:) )
LOVE - live and let live. If I dont live, i cant love. Hope you will agree with this. Your words are fantastic. And India is the janmaboomi for everything, you name it, we have it. Sanathana dharma has everything which you say -love, affection, non violence etc. etc.
Today in India, we dont have communal harmony. In Kashmir 4 million Hindu pundits have been pushed out of their home land, who have lost everything, whatever you mentioned as gifts for people like us. In Pak and Bangladesh the 10% Hindu population during Independence is pushed down to mere 0.5% today. Anywhere in the world if terrorism/Violence spurts, 95% its because of Muslims. Hindus are denied thier basic rights. Whenever VHP or Hindu org. conduct even a religious gathering, trucks of police are piled up there. One of my friends said, a few days back when VHP conduted a vilakku pujai in a temple in Pallavaram, two trucks of Police were pilied outside the temple and several plain clothes police mixed with the public inside the temple. Its not a meeting or any other protest. Just a vilakku poojai. Can this happen to a church or a mosque when they are praying? Can police enter a church or mosque as they entered into Kanchi mutt? If it happens the whole country will burn in flames. Are the Hindus getting the same rights as that of the minorities. As a Hindu I am not even free to pray in this land and how can you expect me to love others?
Hope you heard the controversy regarding the movie called "SINS". There is a heu and cry before the movie was released. Christians protested against the movie even though its said to be a true story happened in Kerala. Just inone movie if a christian father is shown in a wrong way, all christians protest. But showing Hindu sanyasis in a wrong way is a part and parcel of movies. As priya said 1000s of fathers across the world are prosecuted and fined for sexual abuse. Today christian machinaries in the US and Canada are bankrupt and dont have funds to convert in Asia, becuase they are paying huge sums as compensation. But no one talks about it. If someone talks as in "SINS" its revolted. But disgracing Hindus are not of concern to anyone.If I say all this and talk for the Hindus, 1000s of Veenas and Sridhars will protest saying I am fanatic.(sorry I dont mean to hurt anyone. I am just citing examples).They will quote stray instance of Babri masjid forgeting the service done by RSS through out the country or premananda forgetting Ramana maharishi, vivekananda, Arbindo,of the past of Dayanand saraswathi, Chinmayananda, Sukhabodananda, Sudbavananda etc of the present.
Why dont you preach this LOVE to those fanatics. I mean the anti- Hindu, Christian and Muslim fanatics. If people who are concerned about Hindus life talks in favour of them, then they are fanatics (as Sampath, Priya, me are branded hahaha...) and everyone points finger and preches love.
We are ready to love....pathiramarindhu pitchai edu....are the others worthy for our Love...please answer....I am not a gnani to give unconditional love irrespective of the opponent(I mean the christians and muslims). If I can love unconditionally, i wont be participating in such discussion. Why so far, i would not be using computer at all. I will be happily sitting in Himalays or Tiruvannamalai, with just one kovanam(or probably even without that, as thats what mutrum thurandh munivar means. Like Ramana maharishi et al) and will be smiling at this filthy world.I am trying to be one, but I have to cross this samsara sagaram, right...till then I will be Human...
Even if we are ready to love others, christians and muslims say they wont accept the love unless we get converted. Have you ever heard of a Muslim/Christian boy/girl converting(or rather following the Hindu way of life) when they love and marry a Hindu girl/boy? its only the Hindu let it be boy or girl who should convert to thier religion when they love and get married.
Re. your point on our groups purpose. yes I totally agree with you. We are trying to bring the true history. Whatever I am saying is also history. Why dont we talk about the history of Muslims killing the Hindus? Should we talk only about History which is good and has a happy Ending? We are not shooting movies to have happy endings. If Uttama' conspiring to Kill Aditya is history, Muslims/christians/Marxists/letists/congress conspiring to kill Hinduism is also history. If we are not ready to talk about history which is not pleasing to us, then whats the difference between the so called "SECULARISTS", the marxists who never accepts the greatness of India, and us. If we should not talk about history which is unpleasant to us, then the historians are right in thier own sense to deviate from the original history and publish the history which we read today, because they would have felt the original history unpleasant. If thats the case, then the true history, which we try to uncover will never come out.
Dear Mr.Sathish, One thing that all of us here need to understand clearly...the very basic of life is love. True...it is not possible to be as great as a Ramana Maharishi or any one. The very essence of our Vedas is that beautiful thing called love. All of us have to understand one thing....HINDUISM IS NOT A RELIGION...IT IS A WAY OF LIFE....!!!!! IT IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR ANYBODY TO BE A CHRISTIAN,MUSLIM OR ANYTHING ELSE...WITHOUT BEING A HINDU IN SPIRIT....!!!! I am not out to brand anyone a fanatic or anti-secular or anything. The freedom of life that our Vedas has given is not given in anyother religion! Another fact...castiesm is not a result of the Vedas..!!The Vedas and Upanishads only define how a man who follows a particular career is to be identified. Just like the current day bigots are doing, there must have been any number of narrow-minded bigots who made it generation-based.... And who is it that says that Shudra is an untouchable...?! The word "SHUDRA" is nothing but an anagram of SHUDDA+RUDRA+BHAKTHA....this is the explanation given in one of the commentries on the VEDAS by Vyasa or somebody..I do not recall correctly... But my whole point in my previous point is....why any unneccassary such squabbles amongst us? Why can't we prove that it is possible even for people in the Samsaara Saagara, as you so aptly phrased it, can love unconditionally, with all the difference of opinions amongst us? Violence, as one of us has so aptly mentioned, does not help us in this my friend. Why can't we set an example to the masses who are being mislead?
I am happy that we are in synch to some extent. Reg. vedas,the way of life etc. Its difficult for a Hindu to adopt violence, because the way of life itself is based on Love. What you say is the same. Only becuase we practiced love all along, other so called minorities are able to live peacefully in this country for 100s or 1000s of years. Hope no one has objection to this atleast. No one is advocating violence here.
The point I am trying to drive is, apart from external threats, we have internal threats amongst us Hindus itself. Wrong interpretation of vedas, upanishads, wrong interpratation of the varna dharma and so on and so forth. These thought have been influenced by the westerners which is still spoiling our society. No one is questioning the wrong doings of other communities and if someone points out he is branded fanatic or saffron brigade etc. I want this to change. Thats all. If we stand united as Hindus and support the basic rights of ours, there is no need for RSS or VHP et al. Love is the inherent characteristic of Hindus and no one can deny it. As you said all other religions took the basics only from sanathana dharma. By the name itself is says dharma to all. But in India there is not Dharma to Hindus, its available only to the minorities. I dont say they are snatching the dharma from us.But we ourselves are giving it to them in the name of secularism. That should be stopped and everyone should be treated equal.If burning of muslim on street is wrong, then burning of sadhus in train is also wrong. But you yourself saw that people talk only about the first part not the second part. Thats what is paining. Hope things will change and Hindus realise their true weakness and threat so that we all can live peacefully.