Pleased to note that you are going on a trip to Malaysia / Langawi, and interested in looking for - possibly - evidences on Rajendra Chola's expedition in this region.
I myself read a research paper on the subject titled "The Medieval Chola Empire and its relations with Malaysia and Indonesia" at the "6th International Conferance - Seminar on Tamil Studies" held in Kuala Lumpur in 1987.
After the Seminar I went on a quick tour to Kuala Lumper Museum, Kedah State Museum at Alor Setar in Kedag State, Bujang Valley Site & Museum (Kadarem)also in Kedah State, Penang Island Museum, Perak Museum in Ipoh in Perak State, Seramban Museum in Negeri Sembilan State. I also visted Malacca Museum but unfortunately it was closed for repairs at that time.
I also visited Singapore Museum and Jakarta Museum in Indonesia in search of material evidence of Rajendra Chola's expedition in this region. But I found Items of interest mainly in Bujang Valley Museum, Perak Museum, and Kuala Lumpur Museum and Jakarta Museum.
I also tried to fly to Palembang Museum in Sumatra but as time didnot permit I could not visit this place.
If you are really keen and have an intention of trying to trace material evidence of Rajendra Chola's expeditions in this region, I suggest you visit Kelantan State Museum, Terengganu State Museum, Johor Museum, Malacca Museum, Johor State Museum.
But if you are really prepared for it with time and finance for this trip, and you too are interested in same - then try to visit also Palembang and Malaiyur Museums of Sumatra of Indonesia, to investigate whether there are are evidences on the Rajendra Chola expedition. Remember the Palembang & Malaiyur were the capital and important cities of the Sri Vijaya Empire of Indonesia conquered by Rajendra Chola.
These regions I have suggested you to visit HAVE NOT BEEN STILL VISITED BY ME IN SEARCH OF EVIDENCES ON RAJENDRA CHOLAS EXPEDITION.
ALL THES SUGGESTIONS ARE ONLY IF YOUR "TIME, FINANCE, AND INTEREST IN SAME BE THERE" - "AND PREPARED TO ACCEPT THE SITUATION" EVEN IF YOU DONOT FIND ANY EVIDENCES AFTER YOUR VISIT THAT YOU HAVE NO REGRETS.
The very thuoght .. that even after 1000 years and with lots and lots of other worldly things to keep us occupied, very very few like you are taking keen interest in tracing the details of Rajendra I's war expeditions is remarkable and thrilling to read about..
Our very best wishes to Mr. Raghu also ...
Very very unlikely as such traces would be left untouched even after 10 centuries...
Certainly! I will provide all details to this Web Site very soon - "as per your request", through my Thread being prepared presently titled as "The Medieval Chola Empire and its relations with Malaysia & Indonesia" (enlarged version from what was submitted at the 1987 Tamil Conference at KL), incorporating the findings from my tour in Malaysia, Indonesia & Singapore after this conferance, and with a new chapter dealing with Kulothunga Chola - 1's war expedition to Malaysia and Indonesia on behalf of his uncle Virarajendra Chola when he was a Prince under the name Rajendra Chola.
This latter "information article" was published in Prof S.Pathmanathan commemoration volume by its Editor Dr S.Rajagopal former Senior Ephigraphist of Tamil Nadu Archaeological Dept (in an edited form), and in two Monthly Journals titled "Uuttru" of Bangalore Thamil Sangham (in my original format without editing).
> > We have read that even in the 2007, Rajendra I was the subject for > sumission of papers in Singapore Seminars and our dear Gokul has > submitted a paper in the same... > > And our dear Vijay has also attended the same ... > > Undoubtedly " Rajendra I " has always been kindling more interest in > the East and Far East. > > regards / sps >
Dear sps sir,
This is what i infer - would love to be corrected if any wrong mention ( am taking a stand similar to venkat's so that more information comes out -so pl forgive me if i say something that is incorrect):
- apart from chola inscriptions there is no direct support of rajendra's naval assault on srivijaya. - nor clear reason for the raid even in chola records.
Its only collaborative evidence - like the fall of the srivijayan empire around the same period as the period ascertained to rajendra's campaign, correlation of the places mentioned to actual port/places, evidence of ruined cities in and around the vicinity etc. Unlike Raja raja in lanka - which was an attempt to colonise, wherein he established proper admn controls - rajendra's was more a raid.
The only south east asian evidence to chola/srivijaya (initial) relationship is the sung dynasty records - which give ref to chola ambassadors to their court and their introduction.
While i have no doubts about the extent and occurance - there is little direct evidence for this naval campaign.
There are also similar doubts raised on the ganges campaign - with some even mentioning that it was more like a theertha yatra. Again lack of external references is cited.
what is external ref: for eg - all the info about lanka wars we can find matching info in the mahavamsa - incl the retrival of the pandya haram, capture of mahinda etc. ( for venkat's sake - manavamma's exile to India and his return with pallava support to take the lankan crown also finds mention)
Similarly is there any external mention of the naval campaign or the ganges campaign - for eg, the hottur inscription - though listing chola excess does provide proof.Do we have similar evidences outside .i believe this is what venkat had also asked. without taking away the greatness of RRC and RJC, but to silence critics ( who basically ask in 23rd Pulikesi style - Varalaaru migavum mukkiyam amaichare), we got to bring out PROOF.
> Dear sps sir, > > This is what i infer - would love to be corrected if any wrong mention > ( am taking a stand similar to venkat's so that more information comes > out ==================================>
Dear Vijay,
Query 1. SUPPORT - WITHOUT CHOZHA INSCRIPTION - THAT THERE WAS OVERSEAS CONQUEST BY IMPERIAL CHOLAS - PARTICULARLY RAJENDRA i.
Query 2 : SUPPORT - RAJENDRA EXPEDITION TO GANGES WITH INSCRIPTIONS.
Re Query 1 : I remember to have quoted in our Group SRIVAIJAYAM's ADVICE TO THE CHINESE EMPEROR in 1015 or so THAT IT IS IN THE INTEREST OF THE BOTH THE COUNTRIES, THEY SHOULD NOT ENTERTAIN RAJENDRA I.
QUERY 2 :: "Sri Sri Rajendra Chola Thevar 'GANGAIYAI JAYITHARULI (pleased to conequor the Ganges ) JALASTHAM NIRUVINAR ... " Quoted this inscription also in our Group....
You can also check these details from ourArchieves ... I will repost from my ORIGINAL SOURCE within a week.
Am also sure Virarajendra also will have materials on these lines.
And Dear Vijay, please do ask for details ... nothing wrong..
> > Dear Vijay, > > Query 1. SUPPORT - WITHOUT CHOZHA INSCRIPTION - THAT THERE WAS OVERSEAS > CONQUEST BY IMPERIAL CHOLAS - PARTICULARLY RAJENDRA i. > > Query 2 : SUPPORT - RAJENDRA EXPEDITION TO GANGES WITH INSCRIPTIONS. > > > Re Query 1 : I remember to have quoted in our Group SRIVAIJAYAM's > ADVICE TO THE CHINESE EMPEROR in 1015 or so THAT IT IS IN THE INTEREST > OF THE BOTH THE COUNTRIES, THEY SHOULD NOT ENTERTAIN RAJENDRA I.
Vj: 1015 - before the campaign - could be taken as reason for the campaign. But is this a sung record or srivijayan record or chola record. I too have heard of similar, which said that the introduction for the chola ambasssdor was as a vassal of srivijaya - and hence the hostility etc.
> > > QUERY 2 :: "Sri Sri Rajendra Chola Thevar 'GANGAIYAI JAYITHARULI > (pleased to conequor the Ganges ) JALASTHAM NIRUVINAR ... " Quoted this > inscription also in our Group....
vj: Whose inscription is this. from wording see that its chola. remember our line of questioning is to see outside of chola ( varalaaru migavum mukkiyam like of thought)
Thank you all for the info. I am a bit disappointed that Ilangkasoka has not yeilded much connection to the Chozhas. Still I will try to make it at least few of the musuems mentioned.
Of course time and circumstances permitting. It is primarily a family holiday and since I have not been successful in convincing family of the importance of history, they consider it an eccentricity of mine. It would not be easy.
But just to see a question yeild such information and interest assuages that I have a much larger family very much interested in the past. I thank you all for that an
> > > IF YOU PONDER, AND IF YOU REASONABLY ASCERTAIN THAT THE YEAR WAS > INDEED 1015 AD, THEN THERE IS SO MUCH TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES ..! > > > AS WE ARE AWARE 1015 AD being a CRUCIAL YEAR (whether RRC died in > 1014 AD or 1015 AD ? - query still hangs ), Srivijayam would ALTERED > China that RAJENDRA I is more fearsome than RRC 1 ! > > That may a beginning of one postulate ! > > -------
Vj: The first ambassador from cholas reached sung dynasty in 1015.The kadaram Campaign first finds mention in RJC's 14th year of reign - so 1012+14 = 1026, so between 1014 and 1025 is the lower and upper limit for the naval campaign
> > THIS IS RAJENDRA I INSCRIPTION... BUT CONCLUSIVE IN STATING THAT IT > WAS N-O-T RAJENDRA'S THEERTHA YAATHIRAI and HE WOULD NOT BE CALLING > HIMSELF GANGAIKONDAN AND NAME PLACES SO ... ! > > There are so much of RRC / Rajendra related inscriptions in > Tirupathi. Can we find them now ? > > Then how can we expect such support dear Vijay from Poorvadesam? >
vj: Hi sir, Nattamai style - sellathu sellathu - will not count. we need evidence from other side