Hi kalki very well knew vanthiyathevan had to marry kunthavai at the end. but vanthiyathevan has a different relationship with the 4 leading women of PS. in the order of their meeting
vanthiyathevan- manimekalai vanthiyathevan- kunthavai vanthiyathevan- nandini vanthiyathevan- pungkuzhali vanthiyathevan had the best chance of a romance with manimekalai. she loved him truly. but he is sort of releived when maran tells him she is to be married off to somebody else. kunthavai and nandini vanthiyathevan meets one after another. he is dazzled. the puzzling thing however is that he proposes to pungkuzhali after this. your comments please.....
very true. Poonguzhali's character was a very intresting one from the begining. But once she agrees to marry Sendan... buss nu pochu... I too felt that kalki could have handled her character better towards the end. As for Vandhiyathevan.. he is a true romantic dooesnt leave a chance to flirt with any women ;) But his true love was only for Kundhavai which has been portrayed really well by kalki. Whenever he is into any precarious situation like the cyclone or death of AK, his main thot would revolve around Kundavai only.
Venkat, am not sure if Poonguzhali was a 'hot potato'. Poonguzhali is the essential high achieveing strong woman who makes men feel guilty/less brave/less achieving and that is often manifested in their desire to marry her (and therefore gain control). VD's proposal to her was not out of love but more out of guilt while a fisherwoman can be so brave and strong what does that make of him? And AM of course wants his bride to be like his great sister even if she does not think likewise. SA to me is the female in the relationship, which happens a lot in real life too.
To me Poonguzhali's character is more realistic than all the other women and she gets full marks as a person. VD is the typical youthful romantically confused young man who is attracted to several women but ultimately settles for what is most convenient, good for his career/friendship and esteem. Just two cents.
> I think it was not in vanthiyathevans charecter that kalki went > astray. it was pungkuzhali's charecter. > she was just a hot potato and kalki just couldnt handle her. > i am sure the men in ps were attracted to her more than anybody else. > > vanthiyathevan proposes to her minutes after he thinks she is insane. > amv dreams of her and in his delirious dream protests to kunthavai > that she is forcing vanathi on him while his intentions are towards > pungkuzhali. > > and sendan amudhan literally begs for her to accept him.
Vaithiyar magan too proposed to her and became enemy of VD...
>> vanthiyathevan proposes to her minutes after he thinks she is insane. >> amv dreams of her and in his delirious dream protests to kunthavai >> that she is forcing vanathi on him while his intentions are towards >> pungkuzhali. >> >> and sendan amudhan literally begs for her to accept him. > > Vaithiyar magan too proposed to her and became enemy of VD...
Kalki always has an comic element added to all the conversation between VT and Poonguzali. VT proposes to Poonguzali only as a joke, he tells her if she has no plans to marry Sendan, he will apply to that post. He even argues with Kundavai, why a Royal Prince should not marry a commoner, referring AM and Poonguzali.
He he..solved his food problem..great way to put it, I agree completely:)) Yeah possibly Kalki did envy VD for his playboy-ish ways..and perhaps Kalki did feel stifled himself with Rajaji and Gandhi around, poor guy :))
Diwakars quotable quotes (as far as I can remember). I think the archives from Sep 2005 should have these quotes.
Poonguzhali - andha ponnu oru loosu sir.adhu kooda kudumbam nadithina kandippa divorce than.
Vanathi - nadaga mayil. acted very well in front of AM and avana kauthitta..
VD - saappattu raman. Quotes the scene when he eats at SA's house. paniyaram. He is landless prince, only with his past fame. So wants to settle in a royal place so that he need not bother about next time food. Kundavai was the right choice, because for her character she will not leave the royal palace of chola's even after marriage. So he can happily settle with her.
I forgot for what he used this phrase 'why blood, same blood' but it was really hilarious. came out during the return trip from Tanjai.
Dont remember the rest.
These three, I remember well for its depth. Poonguzhali - Natarajan Srinivasan and Diwakar used to fight a lot. VD - cant miss for saapatu raman comment. And nadagal mayil for vanathi was a phenomenal phrase which we seldom use these days.
Thanks Satish. I definitely disagree on Pooguzhali, seems like a classic male comment, apologies :) but you cant have the cake and eat it also, you can't ask for a strong woman and then complain about 'kudumba paangu'. But she was a strong woman and if we extend into Kalki's imagination I bet she made a pretty strong queen later :)
Vanadhi, yes definitely nadagam case dhan, sila samayam konjum pavamagavum irukkum. Kalki introduces her as a moody woman often times depressed also, so the fainting may not be always nadagam. Also many woman have to resort to nadagam among others who do not take them seriously. So definitely somewhat irritating since we dont' know what she is upto and definitely not queen material.
VD I agree with every word although we have to see the innocence at times behind the sapattu raman and skirt lover :))
Some how when ever I read about Poonguzhali, i just imagine its JJ(amma).... she is the closet real life character I can relate to... I mean the power,braveness and bit of eccentricity . And for VD isn't he like a typical teenager of present day trying to relate to every beautiful gal her meets? and the women he met .... kunthavi- hit list of every guy for she was the most celebrated women in the kingdom, Nandhini - VD was normal guy , obviously he had to fall for Nandini - he was no saint Poo - was bit uncommon and powerful charcter which would attract any guy only Manimekalai character was gal VD could have avoided...but she was the first gal he imagined to be with.... Any normal person if he met with first three characters would have fallen in love or at least some kind of infatuation with them... isnt it like meeting asin shirya and nayantra of present day?
Manimekalai..in my opinion she is an odd woman too, somewhat irritating (to me). She has a huge crush on VD and ultimately dies for him. (Love that is not reciprocated is a crush). She is talented, intelligent, beautiful, i mean if not VD so what she would have had lots of others...atleast RRC I can understand the guy was a prince and lots of women fall for princes..but VD I really dont' know, he is not exactly made out to be a lady killer and why this female sacrified herself for him.
pungkuzhali is in KM nadarajan srinivasan one of the first to read the manuscript would have killed me other wise. but pungkuzhali is in a different role- she's the chola empress by then .
> Manimekalai..is a true lover in the sort look at the other choices offered to her aditya karikalan and maduranthakan both direct heirs to the chola throne. she still thinks about vanthiyathevan wastes away and dies. kalki must have thought highest of her to finish his novel with her death.
not vith vd kunthavai's wedding or coronation of amv.
in my opinion she is an odd woman too, somewhat > irritating (to me). She has a huge crush on VD and ultimately dies > for him. (Love that is not reciprocated is a crush). She is talented, > intelligent, beautiful, i mean if not VD so what she would have had > lots of others...atleast RRC I can understand the guy was a prince > and lots of women fall for princes..but VD I really dont' know, he is > not exactly made out to be a lady killer and why this female > sacrified herself for him. >
Yes definitely that is why i said i found her odd, in the sense that something she found in VD that she had to waste away and die for him. To me something is missing the way Kalki portrayed her and VD, it does not seem strong enough love like Sivakami and Narasimha for instance where the reader really longs for them to get together. Somehow almost all the love relationships in PS seem to have that emotional chord missing.
pungkuzhali and senthan amudhan vd and kunthavai amv and vanathi
all have a subtle political or personal angle to it
vd talks so much about the lost glory of his kingdom that his love for kunthavai comes under suspicion. kunthavai also talks about not leaving the chola kingdom after marriage.
pungkuzhali and her insistence on marrying an emperor only also to be viewed.
vanathi and her uncles demanding that she be married to amv also raises the doubt. perhaps the only true love of PS manimekalai was one sided and did not succeed.
Well if you think back historically..love probably had nothing to do with any of RRC's marriages.. all must have been to secure the support of various feudal lords.
Yes Manimekalai's love was onesided but true. She had been hearing about VT from an young age through KM , infact KM was the match maker in this love till he turned against it due to political reasons. Having believed VT to be her man from an young age she just couldn't accept any other proposal & went to the extent of owning up AK's murder to protect her man. Kalki really gave her an honorable place in PS. Shobha
Good bye to chrome browser. It is a good browser and use it when you want to give a 'hot' or controversial response. It filters out only 'you'.
1. Is Manimekalai real or Kalki's creation?
2. Manimekalai fell in love with VD even before she saw him. Kandamaran's incessant bombardments with VD's valour, strength and beauty made her lose her head long before VD entered the scene. Love at first hearing. This is not the case with other characters.
Sampath
> --- In ponniyinselvan@yahoogroups.com, "R.venketesh" abhivencat@
Hi manimekalai was kalki's creation. so was kandamaran the nearest whom we have is kanda suriyan sambuvarayan who lived much later and did thirupani to the thiruvvakkarai temple.
and perhaps kadambur wasnt even ruled by the sambuvarayans. kalki spun a blend of reality and truth.
> > Dear Venkatesh, > > The British Prince who sacrificied (or refused ? )his Crown as he > fell in love with a Non-Royalty ... > > Then it must be King Edward ...
king edward fell in love with a twice divorced american wallis simpson. he was king for 11 months only in 1936.and was never formally crowned the ministry of British Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin said it would resign if the marriage went ahead; affecting his status as a politically neutral constitutional monarch. Rather than give up Mrs. Simpson, Edward chose to abdicate, making him the only monarch of Britain, to have voluntarily relinquished the throne. he was given the title duke of windsor and george the 6th took his place and after that georges daughter elizabeth 2
. I definitely disagree on Pooguzhali, seems like a > classic male comment,
no way malathi. she definitely had some psychological problems. the night walking, talking to the methane flares in the swamp etc.imagining them as her lovers too. she does show some maturity later when she stands up to the prime minister himself. and also I am answering for another mail. by 'hot potato' i meant for the author. juggling the charecter because shes too hot to hold.
venketesh
apologies :) but you cant have the cake and eat > it also, you can't ask for a strong woman and then complain > about 'kudumba paangu'. But she was a strong woman and if we extend > into Kalki's imagination I bet she made a pretty strong queen later :) > > Vanadhi, yes definitely nadagam case dhan, sila samayam konjum > pavamagavum irukkum. Kalki introduces her as a moody woman often > times depressed also, so the fainting may not be always nadagam. Also > many woman have to resort to nadagam among others who do not take > them seriously. So definitely somewhat irritating since we dont' know > what she is upto and definitely not queen material. > > VD I agree with every word although we have to see the innocence at > times behind the sapattu raman and skirt lover :)) > > --- In ponniyinselvan@yahoogroups.com, "SatishKumar Arunachalam"
Got you Venkat, on the hot potato. Regarding talking to flares, that is actually a common strategy among great adventurists to this day to ward off fear in unknown/scary terrains. Watch Discovery Channel, the extreme adventure program. People going alone in scary terrain talk like that all the time, to rivers, trees this and that.
Venkat, truly fascinating. Some thoughts - VD could have married Manimekalai after marrying Kundavai. I am not sure Kundavai would have had any objections as long as she was the chief queen.The VD in reality did have more than one wife, am I correct?
VD was a survivor, that includes sappadu as you point out other things necessary for survival. Love was great but secondary to survival. That might be a little dry and make him look less attractive but in a time when all kings married to maintain dominion integrity and peace it is not an abnormal/unusual thing.
Lastly, it is very rare to this day that a confident self assured man finds a totally worshipping woman attractive. Same thing with Narasimha and Vanamahadevi, while he respects her attraction, the fire and passion he shared with Sivakami was clearly missing. Manimekalai's problem was that she was a Vanamahadevi like worshipper, willing to go to any lengths to marry him and blind to anything he did. It is hard to refuse, that too from a princess so he relents a while. I would forgive him if he did not find that to be very attractive over time.
Also Venkat I agree 100% that Kalki did not know what to do with her, same as with Nandhini. As you have told several times since he did not write the novel as a stretch and publish it he did not have a chance to rewrite anything and lots of loose ends.
That is all the more reason why I regard SS as his best work, or even PK. Would be great to talk more on Parthiban Kanavu, not much discussion on that?
Satish, I know hard core adventurers who are not televised, they do talk, all the time, to trees, mountains, everything. Even people who live in remote areas (there are lots of people like that in US) do that type of talking. People with psychic abilities even get messages from nature like that.
Talking to the audience is not the same as that, most of the time it is not even verbal just under the breath murmuring.
Wow...must confess one thing, that I have seen that even without knowing. Friends who know one another outside the group and side up to others when arguments get hot happens a lot here. It is normal at one level and another level, very discouraging to an unfamiliar person.
Also to remember, people who grow up in the wilderness dont' have the same social skills as people who grow up in cities and other socially close knit environment. On the other hand they develop great skills that are otherwise impossible for those who are socially adept. It takes a Poonguzhali to take a ferry across stormy sea and kill a leapard bare handed. I think it is really unfair to think she lacked 'kudumba paangu' while she had so many outstanding skills.