> > In fact, Sivakami's " THALAIPPATTAL THALAIVAN THALE .. " (Appar's > hymns ) reminds me of the flash-back! > > A synopsis on Jainism, Details on Theerthangars. > > > A kind of comparitive study - related to Kalki's works...
> Hi kalki seems to have taken for granted that the pallava and appar were chums, after pallava converted. it is true that thiruvathigai played a huge role in both their lives. but is debatable that they were very close. one pallavan did torture appar as is evident from his songs and sekkilar's account. who was that? mahendra or his predecessor. there is a prevalent theory that appar kept far away for kanchi except for one last visit. was he waiting for mahendra to die? from my inference of ss nedumaran and narasimha are almost of same age. in SS nedumaran is yet to marry mangaiyarkarasi and in a dream sequence kalki reveals that sambandha is yet to be born. since appar was quite active theologically when sambandar came of age we presume appar out lived mahendra pallava by a huge margin.
perhaps kalki used the author's liberty to show mahendra and appar as close. venketesh
> just prior to Appar ! > > I am sure Vizag Dhivakar would have more details handy on this. > > anbudan / > > sps > > > > > > some synopsis on Jainism. > Details on Theerthangars. > > Separately on Buddhism. > Their Line of hierarchy. > > How do both of them differ - Ideology - process of worship, period > etc. > > Secondly, how / when did these Faith reach Tamilnadu. > > > > This also may motivate more members to participate in the discussion. > > Anbudan / sps > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In ponniyinselvan@yahoogroups.com, Nandakumar Selvaraj
> > THANK YOU DEAR DHIVAKAR & DEAR VENKAT ... > > Just sharing certain things which I too come across : > > 1. I remember to have read that Kadavar (kone / King) was a Kalabra ! >
Hi sir,
My fav kadava - kopperunchingan ( divakar sir will not agree) - question is what stopped him from taking the title of pallava - after all the king could take whatever title he wanted.
> ================================================== > > Dear Vijay, > > Kopperunchingan was post Malik Gafur. (1400 + AD) > > Kadavar, the Kalabra is prior / contemprary to Mahendra (600 AD) > > > sps > hi sir
dating of kopperunchinga accepted ( however some questions still there if there were one or two - father son duo). further my questions was kadava seems to be a more glorified name during the early pallava days
Nandivarman Pallavamalla is praised as `one who was born to raise the prestige of the Kadava family' S.I.I., Vol. IV, p. 11, sec. D, 1. 1.
However, the pallava titles became popular later stage, but then why didnt kopperunchinga take the title of pallava and still continued with his kadava ensigns.
One of the titles of kopperunchingan found in inscriptions is Kadavakula chudamani!
No. 120. (A. R. No. 286 of 1921).On the north and west walls of the Muktisvara temple
another is Alagiyasiyan Avanialappirandan Kadavan Kopperunjingan
(what a title with due respects to siyan vikram!!) (No. 119. (A. R. No. 285 of 1921). Attur, Chingleput Taluk and District. On the north and west walls of the Muktisvara temple.
No. 129. (A. R. No. 229 of 1925). Akkur, Mayavaram Taluk, Tanjore District.
On the east side of the base of the mandapa in front of the Tanto Risvara temple.
This inscription states that Kopperunjingadeva who is called Alagiya- Pallavar alias Virapratapar, after imprisoning the Hoysalas and levying tribute from the Pandyas, proceeded to the Chola country along the southern bank of the Kaveri
No. 128. (A. R. No. 418 of 1922). Vailur, Wandiwash Taluk, North Arcot District.
On a rock above a natural reservoir to the south of the village.
This inscription consists of 5 Tamil verses addressed to Sakalabhuvanachakravarttin Kopperunjingadeva, surnamed Alagiyasiyan who is said, in the preliminary prose passage, to have defeated the Chola king at Tellaru and to have taken possession of his country after depriving his adversary of all his royal insignia and imprisoning him with his ministers. In the body of the record, Kopperunjingadeva is called Avaninarayana, patron of Tamil, Kadava, Tondaimannavan, Nripatunga, Tribhuvanatti-Rajakkal-Tambiran, Mallaivendan, etc. The verses extol his prowess, fame, victory over the Cholas, Pandyas and the Kannadas and his abiding devotion to the god at Chidambaram.
> Pre - Malikgafur ? > > Will hold my view, check and revert. >
Hi Sps simple koperunchikan was a contemprory of cholas. there were no cholas when malik came. the second capital of the pandyas was in chola heart land kannanur( samaya puram) koperunchikan also built one gopuram of thillai. did extensive work in the temple.
a lot of feudatories of the cholas must have had kalabra origin. my opinion in the lack of absence of one fight to break the back bone of the all powerful kalbras is that they slowly broke up and emerged as mutharayar, sambuvarayars etc.
its amazing how one race that held tamil land in its claw like grip could vanish without a trace.
..regarding letting northern sultans in he was not around when it happened. The sole cause of that debacle were our pandyas.
enna vilayaadureengalaa? pandyas enna/ moovendarum sernthu nindraal kooda they could not have stopped malik. malik may have been the bad man. but he was the man with the highest strike rate. the one who never lost a battle!!!!
I have a question regarding Malik / tuqlaqs cakewalk across india. Its next to impossible to get such a big army from outside India. Did the locals were recruited in their army? even if the locals betrayed their own kith and kin for money, how come they got in hand for destroying the temples? Because there would have been surely some revolts within the army if the temples were destroyed against their wish... I am wondering how pathetic our country was then, with in a few hundred years of the 'Golden Era' of RRC and RJC..
kattabomman kathai mathir...mara thamizhar...veera tamizhar ellam verum dubakoora???
malik was like shane warnes captaincy. one strategy for one war. he never even entered warangal but was satisfie d with all the gold and the kohinoor diamond. he captured the yadava king of deogiri and sent him to delhi where allaudin rather than choping off his head rearded him with a title and jewels. malik never beleived in having enemies at his rear. made more friends than enemies. and really i am not able to find many instances of him destroying temples till tamil nadu. his assault on madurai was aided by the hoysalas - vir bhallala 2. the latter guided him up to madurai. sundara pandyans role was very limited and he deserted malik halfway to madurai.
in fact the turks under malik were beaten and chased out by the regrouped pandyas in a month led by vikrama pandya. but by then the loot had all reached delhi
> > Ms. Marksia Gandhi - State Archlgy - Researcher - has written that > Thiruvadhigai was once the Capital of the part of Tamilnadu when > controlled during Portugese period (Parangipettai Surroundings !! ) > > This temple is situated on the banks of KAPILA RIVER ... and > supposed to be the BIRTH PLACE OF AYYANAR (@ Ayyappan ) !! >
isnt thiru vathigai on the banks of the kedilam river?
Hi, This may not be the factual truth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veera_Ballala_III Pandya affairs Ballala III successfully arbitered in the affairs of Tamil country by appointing Sundara Pandya as the Pandya king as opposed to his competitor, Vira Pandya. This was during 1311. However his focus on Tamil affairs laid open the northern boundaries of his territories to the invasion of Malik Kafur, commander of Sultan of Delhi, All-ud-din-Khilji. Halebidu was attacked and plundered. Veera Ballala had to accept defeat to the Delhi Sulthan and his son Veera Virupaksha Ballala was sent to Delhi as an act of peace. His son returned in 1313. So Kafur did attack Halebidu
Hi of course all these kings -hoysalas included lost a major battle with malik. they sued for peace and tried to divert his attention to other lands.
i dont think there was nay arbitaration in pandya affairs. sundara murdered the reigning king of of pandyas- his father kulasekara. he was chased out by his half brother who had a strangle hold on all the land. sundara was not in possesion of any territory when he sought malik's aid.
as for vir bhallaala, he sent a mystic charecter called thiruvegambaraayan as malik's interpreter and guide( from folk lore)
rayan along with malik witnessed the stone elephants eating sugarcane at madurai temple.
bhallala tried to repent very late in life. he tried to capture madurai from the madurai sultanate( with whom he had very cordial relations for 2 decades) however he was captured , skinned and his skin was stuffed with straw and hung from the ramparts of madurai. this was even mentioned by some foreign traveller( batuta if I remember right) madurai had to wait for kempenna for releif.
Sir, There are possibilities for the Mutharayars to be the descendants of the Kalabhras.But Sambuvarayars of Tondaimandalam are not of Kalabhra origin.The first known Sambuvaraya chieftain is identified as a descendant of Oymans.The oymans(also known as Oyviyar) ruled from Kidangal(Now its in Tindivanam).Some known Oyman rulers were Oyman Nalliankodan,Oyman Nalli aathan,Oyman Villi aathan.
As you have mentioned its always surprising when we hear about some dynasties which vanish completely from the political scene like the Cholas. What i feel is they might have become feudatory rulers under the Pandiyas.There are two possibilites - either their history was not recorded properly or it might be lost.
Even during the time of the Vijayanagara Kings we hear about a Chola ruler named Vir Sekara Chola who attacked the Pandiyan territory.But no further details about him are available. Long back i read in a book (can't remember the book title) that the telugu rulers had agents who will always watch for any rebellion or uprisal and spoil such attempts.
Atleast the Chola rule came to an end much earlier before the arrival of the telugu invaders.But the Pandiyans? They ruled till 1753 AD and at this much later stage naturally it would be easy to know who their descendants were.But still we are unable to know who their descendants are.What might be the reason? Also i read in some site that a library belonging to Varathunga Rama Pandiya was burnt down. This Pandiya was one among the last 3 Pandiyan kings who ruled Thenkasi.
Hi a substantial part of the pandyas ruled from the then paandi thesam- sankaran koil and tenkasi.
cholas of course ended without a heir during the pandya period. there is a novel by gowthama neelaambaran( ???) called vengai vijayam in which he claims one ilegitimate son of the last chola continues the dynasty in pudukottai district.
but the kalabras is a mystery which history has not recorded properly.