im new to ps group. ponniyin selvanai tavirthu, veru enta kataigalil valavaraiyan vantiyatevan varugirar. ponniyin selvanil enaku migavum piditha pathiram azvarkadiyan nambi.
//hi venkat's kaviri mainthan has both playing crucial roles. you can also find VT in old getup ( but with same kusumbu) in akilan's vengaiyin mainthan //
hai vijay, kaviri maintan published by which patibagam.
Vanakkam Viknesh, azhvarkadiyan nambi is one of my favorite characters too. It is rumored that Kalki loosely based this character on Rajaji, who was another 'veera vaishnava' with great intelligence,
azhvarkadiyan nambi is one of my > favorite characters too. It is rumored that Kalki > loosely based this character on Rajaji, who was > another 'veera vaishnava' with great intelligence,
Hi Oh no I dont feel it could have been to kalki rajaji was next to god perhaps anirutha bramarayar yes another vaishnava . certainly he wouldnt have based a comic charecter( even if he is putting on the show being a spy) on rajaji one should read kalkis obituaries written by aringnar anna and kannadasan. both without fail mention kalki's " misplaced" loyalty. to kalki it was loyalty to rajaji at any cost. kalki built a beautiful house in t nagar and when rajaji wanted it he just handed it over. (but he was compensated by a gujarathi businessman cum congress loyalist.)
Azhvarku adiyan,... to me, looked more like a continuation from Gundotharan of Sivakamiyin sapatham. Bramarayar a growth from Shatrugnan. Gundotharan had pretty much all charecterstics of AA.
Was S.Sapatham a practice match for ponniyin selvan ? Names such as Naaganandhi and Nandini. Paranjyothi and Vanthiyathevan. I even feel there were similar traits of Maamallan to A.Karikalan.
Thanks Venkatesh, that is good to know, perhaps Aniruddha Brahmarayar yes. Yes kalki was loyal to a fault to Rajaji, that is very true. There is yet another rumor that he was supposed to be married to MS Subbulakshmi, or rather sent his secretary Sadasviam to propose to her at one point, and Sadasivam proposed himself !:) MSS was a very good looking talented woman in those days.
Yes there are lot of parellels between SS and PS. Although SS has much lesser loose ends and is a complete, very well formed story than PS. I agree about other characters but perhaps not AK with Narsimha Pallava. Narasimha was very endearing to his readers, despite his hot temper and obedience to his father. Our heart breaks for the young Narasimha who pleads with Sivakami to come home and loses the debate with his father on whom he should marry. Personally I did not have any soft feelings towards AK, he was a macho guy for the most part.
Aaditya did not live his life to the full to mature over the years. Narasimavarmar's (in his youth) outbursts or his battle with dhurvineethan at pullalur were similar to sevur battle of AK (barring the beheading part). Mamallan's disclosure to Paranjothi (after the Sivakami refuses to come back) is similar to nandhini haunting AK. Both won great laurels when they were young. Narasimavarmar's hatred for Sivakami looked very similar to AK's hatred of Nandini.
If at all anyone is made to resemble his 'guru' Rajaji, it's Mudal Manthiri Aniruddar and not azhvarkadiyan. Azhvarkadiyan is described, albeit in his (Vanthiathevan's) own thoughts, as parambarai otran because of the calm and composed decisions he takes and, as a result, does not get into the innumerable troubles like himself.
sadasivam and subbulakshmi were the made for each other couple. though they came from diverse backgrounds. he was already married. had 2 childrem. whom ms. brought up( see similarities with ss and parthiban kanavu also first and last letters of both are same. one a dancer and one a singer.
social status came to MS because of sadasivams manuevering. sadasivam was rajaji's seceretary. i knew he worked in the khadar board and then marketing dept of anandavikadan. venketesh
enkatesh, my family was connected to many celebrities. I don't like to take names of those who are alive and also like to qualify rumors as rumors when possible . The kalki-mss story was a rumor.
But the myth that she was 'happily' married was yet another . MSS was born into an artistic family/temple singers and dancers, she was not a brahmin both of which were regarded as key disqualifications in those days for classical singers as well as women who were married. Her mother Veenai Shanmugavadivu was not 'married' but lived a committed life with a man who supported her music and talent. That was the way many women lived in those days. If a man that too a brahmin man came forward to marry they took the chance no matter what as it would promote their career as well as allow for a stable life. It is not surprising therefore that Sadasivam was married.(He was technically Rajaji's secretary but often ran errands, even proof read for Kalki. )People do not realize how many sacrifices MSS made to live with him. She gave up having children to raise his children, she had very minimal contact with her family in Madurai, she lived a sparse life of a gandhian giving away almost every penny.
It was not considered appropriate for women of that generation to speak ill of their husbands and she was an extremely devoted wife. To the outside world they were like Shiva and Parvati. His influence and support helped her career prosper, which is the main reason she was married off to him in the first place. But it was not the type of marriage people think it is, the only way to understand that is if you have seen marriages like that first hand and observe all that goes on beneath them. I do not think it is appropriate to say anything more.
Mamallar was a king like any other of his times. I don't think his relationship with Sivakami was like AK and Nandhini. Nandhini and Sivakami were very different women, Nandhini was a selfish enchantress while Sivakami's affections were genuine. I don't believe Narasimha ever 'hated' her, he was frustrated, and unable to help her in any way. His father did not allow the marriage but he felt obligated to her and had to do something to prove that. Until the last chapter of SS Narasimha seems to retain his feelings for Sivakami. Her sacrifice to become a temple dancer also may have been momentary after she realized he was married.
In Parthiban Kanavu Kalki mentions that Narasimha's patta raani VanavanMadhevi dies young and his daughter Kundhavi was actually raised by Sivakami. They considered marriage and the palace has lot of rumors about the king visiting Sivakami with his daughter. But Sivakami dies subsequently too and the marriage does not happen. The old athai (Aayanar's sister) lives through all of this and is still alive during Narasimha's latter years.
It is one of those haunting questions...not exactly a 'loose end' but questions..the Sivakami-Narasimha relationship, was it an affair or just people in love and Kalki left the rest to the reader's imagination? What stopped both of them from being married after all all kings had more than one wife? Sivakami never desired to be the official queen so why did she step back after she found he was married...On and on. I love that story more than any other of Kalki's works.
HI VIKNESH, from my knowledge excluding ponniyin selvan
vallavaraiyan vanthiyathevan can be seen in 1."nandipurathu naayagi" by vikraman- in this book you will see vanthi as the culprit for adhithan's assassination.and later at the end of the story he will marry kundavai.also the name of "pazhayaarai" got changed to "nandipuram" during this period(+-20 years ponniyinselavan by kalaki period).nandipurathu naayagi refers kundavai. 2."vandiyathevan vaal" by vikraman-in this u can see vanthi as a man with age 50 plus.during this period raja raja chola was the emperor,rajendra chola at 25 th age the ilango.vanthi as uncle of rajendra and kundavai 's betterhalf. 3."mannan mahal" by chaandilyan-in this u can see vanthi as a 80plus aged man.with raja raja chola ,kundavai reached heaven.and rajendra on the throne nearing 50 age.the story rounds about the political problems of "VENGI NAADU" which remained a great problem throught the chola period.in this period the king of vengi was"RAJARAJA NARENDRAN" son of chinna kundavai and vimalaadhithan..(rajendra's daughter)(clash is mainly between the chalukkyas and cholas..){as u r reading kadal pura now,u can see a bit of problem faced by karunaakara pallavan and vikraman who is the governing representative for vengi as appointed by the chola king right..) in this story there is an interesting matter that "RAJARAJA CHOLA GOT MARRIED TO A SRILANKAN PRINCESS AND THEY HAD A SON NAMED "MAHENDRADEVAR".THIS MAHENDRA DEVAR IS ELDER TO RAJENDRA.BUT DUE TO SOME POLITICAL REASONS(CLASH WITH SINGALA RAJAVAMSAM) FROM HIS CHILD HOOD HE WAS WEARING MASKOF AN ORDINARY CITIZEN. MAHENDRA'S SON IS KARIKAALAN.HE IS THE HERO OF MANNAN MAHAL STORY.at the end karikaalan was also sent to kadaram(i.e naadu kadatha pattan)AND finally chandilyan tells that mahendra,his mother and his wife didn't exposed them because to avoid confusion in the rights for throne.and rajendra had been portrayed as a person feeling guilty of having snatched someother's rights.he didn't knew this entire story.but his inner conscience made him to feel like this." i dont know whether this story is true or not.but i think it may be a fiction of chaandilyan as he showed in his other books like ilanchezhiyan of yavana rani. among these three books vanthi plays major role in nandipurathu nayagi and vanthiyathevan vaal.in maanan mahal he comes only for few scenes.
i feel kadal pura 's second part is somewhat boring.scenes of vikraman's introduction and escape are blasting................
Very nice summary, thank you. I am not a big fan of Saandilyan, be it social or historical. Vikaraman is ok, he used to write under another name, forget what. I used to like Kovi Manisegaran sometimes, anyone remember his work?
Sandalyan did keep the interest generated related to Historical Fiction -- among Youth.. This is discussed widely earlier too.
Vikraman - Some of the members (including me) met Mr. Vikraman - thanks to Seethalakshmi madam in AIR Fame PUNITHAVATHI ELANGOVAN .. Elangovan is none other than brother of Dr. Kalaikkovan / Great Historian from Trichy.
Mrs. Punithavathi's son played the role of Vandhiyathevan and his wife Nandhini in the Drama staged under the troupe " Magic Lantern".. these details are also avl in our Archieves.
Vikraman meet took place in their residence (about 3 yrs back) ... Unforgettable. Acknowledgably Vikraman is the first to have stated the FAN CLUB for Kalki. Recommended renaming of Lake View Road as AMARAR KALKI ROAD to the Government too.!
I was also fascinated by Kovi Manisegaran .. !
We have discussed the List of History Fictions and their Authors in detail earlier.. Now we can discuss more ..
The details furnished by member Menatchisundari are fantastic and need to be gone into...
I would like to add one more historical in which we can enjoy vandhi
It is in Vengaiyen Maindhan - Akilan where vandhi is shown as 70yr old external affairs expert.In this book he is said to be having two wives. I wonder who is the other one !!
/// this book he is said to be having two wives. I wonder who is the other one !! //
yes akhilan never state abt his 2nd wife in vengaiyin mainthan. maybe thr got any story regrding vantiathevans 2nd wife in balakumarans udayar. i never read it yet.
That brings another question, did he have children and if he did was it with the mairrage of Kunthavai? Curious to know on our hero's tree. Comparing Paranjothi, his history seems to have a document on his child etc.
On the subject of RRC marrying kundavai's daughter - am yet to see any inscriptional evidence for this - if anyone has please share. for the list of RRC's wives names you can search our archives
Apologise .... am not that far flung but still far. at times the sheer joy of reading historical inferences that match with kalki's narration takes over reasoning i guess.
had quoted the big temple inscription which goes as this
the respected sister of rajaraj, wife ( devi - lady, mahadevi - greatlady) vallavarayar vanthiyarthevar ( his title) - alwar ( a respectful title - again this has been discussed in our archives) ... parantaga - again a chola title ..
Isn't it wonderful that we are discussing about a novel in such detail after almost six decades of its publishing history as a serial in a mag. That's the tribute to the lasting nature of Kalki's writing which many jealous writers from the mag "Manikkodi" used to describe as "escapist" fare!
I don't care whether Kalki's writings can be called "escapist" or not, but tell me which other Tamil writer's compositions are being discussed with such passion after so many decades following his death? I can't recall any other's. His writings have brought unbridled joy to millions of readers. That, in itself, is enough to celebrate his writings.
When you discuss PS and SS, the endings of these two novels cannot but be mentioned. I am sure whenever anyone reads these novels, whether for the first or umpteenth time, a lump forms in his or her throat. How Kalki describes the posture of VT when he sits with Manimekalai's dead body on his lap! How he wonders where the soul of that body has gone, whether it's joined with the sweet-smelling air or with the fragrance of the flowers etc..... and finally wonders whether it's entered VT's soul and has made him a different man from the one we know him as...more mature, thoughtful and weighing the pros and cons of his actions instead of a joyful man with a penchant for spur-of-the-moment actions.
Like someone has mentioned, Kalki - in his post script for the novel - has clearly outlined what happened to the various characters and has also said that he's sure better and more creative writers than himself would write a sequel. Quite a few sequels have come about, but none to match the predecessor which is non pareil!
The ending of SS also is very poignant with Sivakami dancing in the temple with oneness of thought totally focusing on the Lord while King Narasimha watches it with tears in his eyes, seeing his one-time love dance to "Munnam avaludaya Naamam Kettal". Such writing invariably brings tears to the readers' eyes, inevitably even if they have read it before. That's the beauty of Kalki's creative power!
Very well described, yes manimekalai's death in PS and sivakami's conclusion in SS are some of the most poignant writings of Kalki. My mother used to say when SS was serialised the last time even men were crying in public for the last episode.
Also this whole thing about being 'escapist', I think the best answer for that came from Chakrapani, the film producer who owned Vijaya Studioes with Nagi Reddy and made many memorable movies in those days. Chakrapani said movie makers, writers are all entertainers at first. Their primary goal is to be known as a good artist and entertainer. Along with that they had to mix social messages and historical context because of their care and concern for society in general. People should not mistake them for being reformers totally, a reformer rarely has time for movies or stories.
-hi wasnt the chief queen of rrc a rastra kuta princess? so was vanthiyathevan, would kunthavai have missed the chance? also kundavai and the chief queen of rrc have common temple activities ( SPS please elaborate)
venketesh-- In ponniyinselvan@yahoogroups.com, "Vijay Kumar
Dear Vijay, I am getting wonderful references from this website about ancient Dravidadeesha sites, which I am most interested in.
I don't even know who KALKI is.
I know nothing about Tamil authors, only those who wrote in English, like R. K. Narayan. But somehow, perhaps by accident, someone let me join this chat-group. The man who gives all info on ancient temples is a great boon to me. Thanks for letting me be a part of all this. Kathie B. > > > http://www.whatisindia.com/inscriptions/south_indian_inscriptions/vol > ume_2/introduction.html > > > > > but is the mention of the word mahadeviyar as clue - devi could be > > taken as only - mahadevi might mean greatestdevi???? > > > > >
> > Dear Vijay, > I am getting wonderful references from this website > about ancient Dravidadeesha sites, which I am most > interested in. > > I don't even know who KALKI is. >
When I first saw a mail from a name Katerine, I was wondering how come you are a fan of Kalki. Now I know.Kalki is one of most famous tamil authors. His book Ponniyinselvan(name of this group), a great novel brought this group together.The book has been translated in English, perhaps you should try it.
BTW, the pictures of Nataraja and the lizard in the temple are wonderful.
SPS, venkat - i bet you thought you have seen just about anything in this site - but the above is the best till date. kathie - your post will remain in our memories and am sure will take some beating...no offence meant.
on a serious note - when our own people are neglecting our culture - your interest in ours is actually hurting. I wish we had more people like you both within and without - to fully appreciate the true richness of this great land.
Dear Sivaram, I hope you don't mind my joining your group though I know so little about things. I love Tamil culture and art, and will be happy to share all my photos withyou. I'll try to get English versions of the books you all love so much (I'm a library worker in USA) so that I can know about the Pallava & Chola rulers you are so fond of. I hope you won't hold it against me that I love the Chalukya sculptures, also. Kathie B.
dear friends, Don't be insulted that I don't know yet about your famous writer. How could I? Is he translated into English?
The web is a wonderful thing. I love So. Indian culture so I can read translations of his writings and learn more about Pallava & Chola history through him. I'll do that. But what I want to know is the inspiration for all the great art from Kanya Kumari to Vellore that I have come to love in studying Indian art? Please don't be offended that I've wished to join your group. Educate me ! Kathie B.
> > Dear Sivaram, > I hope you don't mind my joining your group > though I know so little about things.
It is a pleasure to see such people in the group and actively participating in the discussions.
> I love Tamil culture and art, and will be happy to share all my photos withyou.
we would love to see your photos. You can upload it some where and send the link to us.
>I'll try to get English > versions of the books you all love so much (I'm a > library worker in USA) so that I can know about > the Pallava & Chola rulers you are so fond of. > I hope you won't hold it against me that I love the > Chalukya sculptures, also.
haha.. that was a good pun. any art is to be appreciated, even I love Chalukya sculptures, though I never had the opportunity to visit, i have seen the photos.
I dont think even all the Tamil people know who Kalki is? I have come across many people who dont know him. Forget kalki, I would say most of the tamils even dont have the habit of reading, lest know authors.
I really appreiciate Katherine's interest in this group. This group is to learn and make others learn. You learn from others message and post a question and others will learn looking for the answer :)
Yes that is a rather common problem nowadays, with the slow death of the printed magazine and increasing assault of cable and internet, old habits such as reading and book discussions are also dying as well.
I was reading a book by Sudha Narayanamooorhty, the wife of Infosys chairman Narayanamoorthy, short stories on her experiences around the country. In that she says about how she was travelling on a flight with a statue of Rani of Jhansi which was gifted to her by someone. Some kids next to her asked her if the statue was a martial arts person. She educated them on who Rani of Jhansi was but she could see that they were not much intersted.
I continue to experience cultural shocks every time I visit India, the widening gap between what people used to be and what they are. A gap that is sadly taken up by unncessary browsing and trashy movies, for the most part.