the women and the throne
  • hi
    a small analysis of the heroines of PS and the chola throne


    kunthavi
    born in its shadow, can never hope tio attain it because she was born
    a girl. but is determined to influence the person on it.

    pungkuzhali
    never in love with a person but the occupant of the throne.

    vanathi
    loves amv but wants to clearly differentiate it from her love of the
    throne and is stubborn that the world sees it.


    the two most important now.
    manimekalai is offered the throne on the platter twice. to marry
    mathuranthakan or later aadityan but refuses it on the grounds of her
    love with vanthiyathevan.

    nandini.
    if she asks me to kill my father and ascend the the trone with her as
    the queen i am afraid i will do it says the strong man of the novel
    aditya karikalan. we all know that to be tru. so persuasive is
    nandini's aura.
    but she does not do it. perhaps pandya freedom was more important to
    her than this.


    venketesh
  • Hi SPS
    kunthavai we give importance because rrc includes her name ahead of
    his wives in that big temple kalvettu.
    yes we havent had too many important princesses, during that period.
    naik period yes we have mangammal,meenakshi and later we have velu
    nachiyar/

    however in the period you are talking about if you look religion wise

    1 sembian madevi of the malavarayar clan

    2 mangayrkarasi born chola married into the pandyas


    both have a great influence on the way we live today.
    their impact reaches out over a millienium

    venketesh
  • hi venkat

    is Kundavi from PK - fact or fiction?. incidentally who was
    narasimha pallavar's patta mahishi.
  • Hi
    must have been nedumarans sister.the pandya princess
    not sure if there was fact involved.

    venketesh
  • >
    > Vandhiyathevan married another Princess also - apart from Kundavai -
    > later !)
    Yes, in vengaiyin mainthan elango will jokingly ask the elderly vd, eppadi thatta rendu pondatti vechu samalikireenge... But one more to sps sir, from where do we get this info that vd had two wives...appadiye irunthalum he is better off than his brother in lw

    Vj
  • >
    > Mangayarkarasi - are you talking of Thirunarukkarasu (@ Appar)'s
    > sister - who was related to Mangoe fruits episode ?
    >


    Hi SPS


    mango fruit episodes was karaikal ammaiyar
    appar's sister was thilakavathi

    mangayarkarasi the chola princess comes as a charecter in sivakamiyin
    sabatham- one who refuses to marry the jain nedumaran( narasimha's
    brother in law)
    in fact she only tells nedumaran that danger is awaiting him from his
    sister.

    kalki the master story teller puts in a sequence where she dreams of
    sambandar even before he is born.

    mangayarkarasi- one of the 63 nayanmars
    mangayar karasi one of the few ladies mentioned in devaram
    mangayarkarasi who was instrumental in getting sambandar to madurai
    and caused a hindu revival in tamil nadu.

    venketesh


    >
  • Hi

    for people who quoted vananthi- amv romance( with vanathi not knowing
    the real identity of the man she fell for) i would like to mention,
    the seeds of that brilliant romance was sowed by kalki in sivakamiyin
    sabatham itself.

    two youngsters to take shelter from the rain, come to a dilapitated
    palace of the minor cholas.
    thats where the chola princess mangayarkarasi meets nedumaran first.
    though they say they are not royal, her father suspects.


    much later she meets him in the kanchi palace garden. nedumaran still
    conceals the fact of his royalty from mangayarkarasi and a nice
    romance blossms aptly in the flower garden.


    its only later that she learns of his identity but refuses to marry
    him because he is a jain.
    finally she does when he promises her freedom to practise whatever
    religion she wants to.


    nedumaran at that point doesnt know he will one day become a
    shaivaite saint whose statue will adorn every shiva temple.
    funny are the quirks of fate.

    venketesh
  • THAT IS EXCELLENT SYNOPSIS !
    THANKS VENKAT.
    regards / sps
  • hi venkat

    Coming from a very consevative family and into an arranged marriage
    ( i hv read through your bio of kalki)....how did kalki manage such
    wonderful romantic escapades - i especially like the vel marks left
    behind by pallavar - sort of like now a days missed call..

    and why so much into broken love .... unfullfilled love on both
    sides - in ss ofcourse but even in PK the aged mamallar pins for his
    lost love....

    vj
  • hi vijay;
    nice of you to notice that Kalki's romantic escapades were wonderful. I was
    also fascinated by Poonguzhali-Arulmozhi chapters in PS. Probably because he
    couldn't indulge in any of these himself he simply poured his heart out into
    the characters. One of those loves is probably his own love-story!!!

    BTW if you have read any of Mr.Venketesh's books you would notice the above
    in his books too.Infact sometimes even more than Kalki himself! Ithukku
    yenna kaaranama irukkum? Naan yethayum yugikka virumbala.Yetho ketkanam'nu
    thonichi....avalavuthaan...:) :) :) :) :) :) Narayana...Narayana!!
  • Probably
    because he
    > couldn't indulge in any of these himself he simply poured his heart
    out into
    > the characters. One of those loves is probably his own love-story!!!


    Hi Rahul

    we can analyse my books and the possible impacts of the romantic
    scenes later.
    lets do it for kalki first.

    I simply detest the notion that the written word is a manifestation
    of the author's experiences.
    if it was only so, than how could kalki have written so much about
    the royals when he had no chance of even leading a middle class
    life.i think due credit is not given to the author's creativity if
    we assume he was just writing about his experiences juxtaposed on a
    different scenario.

    and kalki's personal romances i could find no evidence.

    his first aranged marriage was stopped after an engagement because
    his would have been father inlaw( a police man) came to hear of
    kalki's jail term.
    venkatraman, kalki's brother pleaded in vain that the 'parikaram' had
    been done religiously for it.
    kalki kept postponing his marriage after that. he was quite old when
    he married and found to his shock that rukmani his wife was
    illiterate. thats another story.
    venketesh
  • >
    > I simply detest the notion that the written word is a manifestation
    > of the author's experiences.

    venkat - i would agree to everything you say with regard to royalty
    etc etc ,but lvoe - no - the last scenes of ss and also PS - the
    lament of the lovelorn is so heart wrenching - the pain that is
    penned so true - that i still think its not possible for someone to
    write it without having had to undergo that ..... ethai venalum
    artistic talent - karpanai enru sollungal - but those two scenes
    cannot come from someone who has not undergone the hell of losing his
    beloved.
  • Hi
    the scenes are wonderful i agree
    even if you look at the angle of periya pazluvetaraiyar or naganathi

    but I am sure they have to be attributed to the genius of kalki. in
    his imagination he must have donned the skin of the charecters.

    venketesh
  • >>I simply detest the notion that the written word is a manifestation
    > of the author's experiences.>>

    Well, this is news to me!! Not being an author probably contributed to this.
    I was of the opinion that most characters and small happenings like
    love,arguments, heated dialogue exchanges,etc were often experiences from
    the author's daily life or from things he/she experienced in his/her life.
    Probably my own ignorance about author's contributed to this. Nice to hear
    an author's firsthand opinion on this. Thanks Mr.Venketesh.
  • Hi Rahul
    of course small experiences do get reflected.
    and I have a habit of basing charecters on real life people, but then
    if every story seemed like an auto biography the author would run out
    of steam in a few books and wont they seem monotonous.

    venketesh
  • Hi
    I have heard a lot of people compare naganandhi with periya
    pazuvettaraiyar, though experts feel nandini is a female
    manifestation of nagandhi( the similarities in the name , the
    comparison to a snake etc)
    an old man in love with a pretty maiden - a typical shakesperean
    tragedy.
    also the second most powerful man in the empire.
    always thinking that he can overcome the hurdles in romance because
    of other attributes (even think of their rivals like half grown men,
    more like kids)

    venketesh
  • Yes, At the end of SS i felt that Naganandhi love is greater than mamallan.
    But in the last page,when i read the line that Mamallar went out from temple while sivagami dancing for god..I got tears from my eyes.But somewhat i felt great about Naganandhi...to the last,he is very strong in love with sivagami.

    But when i read PK, Kalki showed naganandhi as pazhi vangum ssamiyar..And about mamallar...he stayed in sivagami's house and think about their love.
    SS is very nice love novel.I read first SS then only PS. PS is great novel when compare to SS. but i give first rank to SS, second to PS and third to PK.
  • Hi
    SS & PS both have a lot of romantic content. While in PS we have more than one pair in SS mamalla- Sivakami pair is highlighted.

    I would say both Sivakami & Oomai Rani have to be appreciated for their selfless love.

    While for Oomai rani even her natural children were not as important as her Loved one's son. Her love won over even her motherhood.

    Sivakami inspite of having failed in love was magnanimous enough to be a mother to Mamalla's children.

    Shobha
  • >
    > Sivakami inspite of having failed in love was magnanimous enough
    to be a mother to Mamalla's children.

    kalki mentions this once in parthiban kanavu.
    what a genius.
    he was yet to write sivakamiyin sabatham but had the entire story in
    his mind. such small details too.

    venketesh




    >
    > Shobha
    >
    >
  • Quite an interesting thread...

    Venkatesh is quite right in his arguement that an author cannot
    survive only with his own experience. Creativity is the one that
    distinguishes a good author to a great author.

    Recent threads on Udayar - thanks to Swetha, I never even started to
    read it. She warned me even before the second part was released.
    I read Balakumaran only recently. Just two novels and fell flat.
    Amazing work indeed (appam, vadai, thayirsadam & irumbu kudiraigal)..
    But when it comes to Udayar ???

    Balakumaran is a good author but Kalki is great. Thats the
    difference.

    Ofcourse, authors use their own experience to write. Maybe, just
    maybe Kalki wrote his own experience for the romantic scenes. Or may
    be he was in love with someone and never materialized, thats why so
    many love failiures in his novels. We never know.

    Rahul,
    Coming to Venkatesh, I am yet to read both his books (sorry
    venkatesh, KM is half way through and TOK just got the ebooks from
    Suganya day before :)) Venkatesh never knew that there are three
    Thevara sthalams inside Annamali Univ. even though he studied there
    for 4 long years. He repented once that if he had spent the time he
    wasted elsewhere (enganu naan solla maten pa...avaru mens hostella
    irundharu, vera hostel enna irukkunu enakku theriyadhu) he could
    have learnt more on religion and history even during his college
    days. :)

    So who knows what his personal exp. were ?? :)

    Coming back to Kalki, his other novels like Poimaan karadu, he
    writes as if it was narrated by someone. Maybe so.
    What I feel is, great authors read between lines and are capable of
    making a story out of a single line they come across.

    Even english authors give a lot of description about wars and
    weapons, I dont think they would have used it or participated in
    wars.

    Just creativity, learning to read in between lines, pickig up a
    story from a single word or instance happening around - these makes
    an author great.

    And Kalki is simple great.
  • Balakumaran's Purushavatham is a very good work. Tells
    the story of Pazhaiyanoor Neeli in detail.
  • On arranged marriages and romantic imaginations,
    is it not true that only arranged marriages keep
    romantic deams alive?

    Is it not the Love marriages, the miserable end of the
    golden goose of romantic dreams?
  • Sharp observation, Venkatesh. How many would have spotted this?
    Those who read PK first would have known the climax from the beginning
    when they started SS. But most of us read PK last; even then I missed
    this.
    You deserve the title "Kalkiavadani"
    Sampath
  • Hi all,

    yes, Parthibhan Kanavu was novelised first, but it's wrong to say he did not have SK outlines.
    In fact it was a radio drama in Tiruchi station before PK was novelised. In that radio drama there
    was no Naganandi.
  • HI Vijay

    kalki had the highest degree of disregard for writing and publishing.

    i can give several instances.
    one he writes early in his career " show me one man who made money
    from writing"

    the other was related to me by vanathi thirunavukarasu. kalki's son
    rajendran had written a story which was published by vanathi
    thirunavukarasu in his "jil jil' pathirikkai( co editior tamilvanan)

    kalki sought out vanathi and blasted him" i wanted my son to study b.
    pharm and start a pharmacy. you are mis guiding him"
    i am quoting this because the first preference kalki always gave to a
    creative literary idea was to make it a film.
    i am sure kalki had ss on paper as a film screen play .we just dont
    have the notes. he seemed to have maintained a high secrecy during
    those days.
    for ss he asked some leading dances like rukmani devi arundale if
    they could co operate. but then he changed the screen play into a
    novel.
    amaraara was also possible because he had notes drawn up for a movie.
    his daughter could finish the novel because of thse notes only.

    venketesh
  • Dear Sampth Sir,

    Yesterday I re-read and posted Vikraman's meet.

    I observed in that Vikraman - himself being a writer - was (is) very
    much appreciative of Kalki and did not chose to discuss his works ..
    rare quality for a Writer. This is written in 2005 ..

    Just recalled that our Dear VENKATESH is another Gem !

    And you very rightly Coveted him with the Title - KALKI-AVADHANI!

    best regards / sps
  • I think I shared this information with the group long back.

    The SS book I have has a 'munnurai' by Kalki. In that he himself
    says that his 12 year old dream has come true. The seed for the SS
    story outline came in his thought 12 years back and only now he
    could put it in writing. And he feels relieved that he has shed his
    12 year weight from his heart and is happy. Even though he had the
    idea for 12 years in his mind, he was forced to write PK when in
    Jail, because of the situation around.

    I think thats how he was able to link SS and PK very well. So in
    Kalki's thought process, SS was first, PK second and probably PS
    third.

    Any idea when he started thinking about PS? Because we all know he
    made two trips to Lanka to study the area to write and also visited
    a lot of places for his research. It could not have happened in 49's
    so that he can start writing in 50. His detail itenary as when he
    travelled is available in my SS book,but thats at my home in
    Chennai :(

    Venkatesh any clue?

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