Dear SPS It would be very interesting to see the Photo secondly I think its a engineering feat to have a eight pieces of stone merged as one for the top
In Social and Cultural History of Tamilnadu book, Mr.N.Subramaniam says that Kuloththunga-1 must have gone to Khamboja and the King of Khambhoja had shown him a beutiful stone as a curio (kaatchi). Kuloththunga has caused this stone to be inserted into the wall of a hall in the shrine at Chidambaram.
2) also checked the reference in - Hultsch E., (Ed) Epigraphia Indica, Vol V, 1889-99, pp 105-106; Ancient Kamboja, People and the Country, 1981, p 10, 333]
(L. 10.) A stone was exhibited by the Kamboja king before the glorious Rajendra- Choladeva* This (stone) was, by order of the lord Rajendra choladeva, placed in front of the shrine of the god who is the lord of Tirucitrambalam, This stone was placed in the upper front row of stones of the hall opposite the shrine.
1) Rajendra Chola, the other name for Kuloththunga Chola and 2)Either Kulottunga visited Kambojha or the Kamboja King must have visited Chola.. I would like to know the exact period.
There was also reason to beleive that Kulottunga visited Kambojha on his way to China but that period comes during Vira Rajendra or Athi Rajendra. The great Rajendra did not visit Kambhoja, I think. (any how I will refer details too.) I think there was some reference by way of inscription in GKC Temple walls about the Kings of Kambhoja - this again I am writing from my memories but have to confirm this too. Dhivakar
Kulottunga alias Rajendra has also one daughter named after Kundavi or Kundavai Alwar. To my knowledge RRC sister has no Alwar back-up with her name. Kindly check-up. Please note that all my references are to be thoroughly checked.
Reg. Rajendra name for Kulottunga mentioned through K.Parani. Lot of inscriptions mentioned the King's name as Rajendra only. Example: DHRAKSHARAMAM Temple walls (East Godavari Dt. in AP).
I thought rrc sister our beloved kundavai of ps ..... Was addressed as .... Tiruthamaikkaiyar alwar kundavai pirattiyar...in the same inscription which names valavarayar vanthiyat tevar.
I think its time to debate on the evidence that the kanoji stone is at kumbakonam
it is specificaly mentioned as a precious stone. the cholas were the kings of all that they surveyed when this happened. the stone must have been something phenomenal and better than all that they had in their treasury for them to mount it in their holiest temple( where they crowned themselves)
SPS what evidence is kudavoil giving other than the similarity of the lions?if there had been any cambodian influence it must have been in chidambaram.
is he saying the lions along with the precious stone were in chidambaram and then shifted?
first we need to fix the time frame.
the stone was placed in chidambaram according to the inscription in the year ---------( approx)
it must have been shifted when the kumbakonam temple was done in the year ------( aprox)
why could it have been shifted? chidambaram temple may have been partly destroyed in 1314 by malik kafur. but by then the cholas were long gone.
> the stone was placed in chidambaram according to the inscription in > the year ---------( approx) > >
Inscription of the 44th year at Chidambaram.
This inscription is engraved on the outside of the north wall of the innermost prakara of the Nataraja temple at Chidambaram, The inscription is dated in the 44th year of Jayadhara, from the kalingathuparani we know that this was a surname of Kulottunga-Chola I.,to whose reign the present record must be assigned accordingly. Professor Kielhorn has calculated the details of the date (1, 6f.) and has found that it corresponds to Friday, the 13th March A.D. 1114.
actual translation
(L. 5,) In the year forty-four (of the reign) of Jayadhara who ruled all the four quarters, at the time (of the rising of the sign) Rishabha on the day of (nakshatra) rohini, which corresponded to a Friday in the month during which (the sign) mina was shining,
try the tamil date here
Madurandagan-madaiyodu okkum pon pa aip(m)bad[i]n kala[n]ju U nanilattai mulud anda jaya dararku narpattu-nal andil Mi(mi)na=nigaL nayarru Velli pe rra urosani nal idabam podal tenilavu polir billai
we can take this as the date of the stone being kept in the temple.
can you give us an approx( or actual date ) of the kumbakonam temple?
venketesh
> > actual translation > > (L. 5,) In the year forty-four (of the reign) of Jayadhara who ruled > all the four quarters, > at the time (of the rising of the sign) Rishabha on the day of > (nakshatra) > rohini, which corresponded to a Friday in the month during which > (the sign) mina was shining, > > try the tamil date here > > Madurandagan-madaiyodu okkum > pon pa aip(m)bad[i]n kala[n]ju U nanilattai mulud anda jaya > dararku narpattu-nal andil Mi(mi)na=nigaL nayarru Velli pe > rra urosani nal idabam podal tenilavu polir billai >
> > Friday, the 13th March A.D. 1114. > > we can take this as the date of the stone being kept in the temple.
Press release by Kudavoil Dr. Balasubramanian::Airavatheswarar Temple in Darasuram was built by Rajaraja II ( AD 1150)
so what was the need to shift the stone in 36 years?
and were the lions in chidambaram too?
venketesh
> > > > > actual translation > > > > (L. 5,) In the year forty-four (of the reign) of Jayadhara who > ruled > > all the four quarters, > > at the time (of the rising of the sign) Rishabha on the day of > > (nakshatra) > > rohini, which corresponded to a Friday in the month during which > > (the sign) mina was shining, > > > > try the tamil date here > > > > Madurandagan-madaiyodu okkum > > pon pa aip(m)bad[i]n kala[n]ju U nanilattai mulud anda jaya > > dararku narpattu-nal andil Mi(mi)na=nigaL nayarru Velli pe > > rra urosani nal idabam podal tenilavu polir billai > > >
meaning tirukkal and not tirukkai - how would you explain tirukkal sarattil ...dont think saram can be likened to bali pedam. Saram/sarattil is more akin to lintel/plank etc. in that context to me its reads as ....
indakkallu - this stone tiruedir - opposite ambalattu - god tiru kkal - stone sarattil- lintel tiru mun pattikku - front half melai ppatiyille - upper half vaittadu - kept
alternative, we might need to recheck the two pattikku, ppatiyille
is it padikku /padiyille - meaning steps
then the meaning would be simpler
kal sarattil, thiru mun paddikku melai padiyile vaittadu!! the step after the first step??
Hi if it means step then the equations change. the stone was places closer to the main god. the medai in the middle consists of 2 halls actually. sith sabhai and kanaka sabhai. so the hall opposite the god may actually be knaka sabhai without having to go as far as govidaraja/
5 steps the panchatchara padi lead from kanaka sabhai to sithsabhai where nataraja is kept. the roof above the steps is openable and we can find many a time it being pulled away for light or smoke to exit.'
the chola king was seated on these steps and given aceremonial bath. he would then be taken to ayingkal mandapam for his coronation.
so to the cholas it was an important place- these steps I mean.
i dont hv the original tamil version - from the english transliteration from epigraphica indica the two words are not clear, maybe an expert can correctly interpret what it means:
tiru mun pattikku melai-ppattiyile
why the two tt coming together - in the transliteration. we need to work backwards to derive at what could be actual tamil word
patti -in the both the occurances is shown with tt. also a pointer is that there is no indentation on the a, meaning its not a long a but a short a. eg, the e in melai has an indentation on top, so also the e in yile...meaning they are long vowels.
Hv sent you the actual transliteration vide email, will try and post it in the files section.
hv added in the photos section...if you see it, you will clear see the identation on the long vowel a, in the previous lines - eg if i were to denote the indented a as AA, it will look like KAAmbosa rAAjan and RAAjendra -
1) its kambosa for sure. 2) was it a gift??, it only says kamboja king displayed it? 3) it was placed - vaittadu ( comes twice in the inscription) 4) think the key is in kkal sarattil and pattikku
to those who joined late and dont want to go into the detailed transliterations of the edicts - this is what is happening
a stone( precious/ curiousity) was gifted by a king( kanauj/ kampuchea) to the chola king who deemed it fit to fix in the holiest temple of the cholas - chidambaram this happened in 1114 AD
where it was fixed is on a patti or padi according to the edict carved with the stone.
eminent archeologist kudavoil balasubramaniam gave a press release that he had identified the stone in the balipeetam airavatheswarar temple kumbakonam district(1150 ad) the discussion going on is whether the two stones are same.
the logic used is that four lions guarding the stone look kambodian in charecter.
questions being raised are
what is so precious about the stone discovered that the chola king deemed fit to fix in his holiest shrine.
what was the need to shift the stone opposite the sanctum in chidambaram to airavatheswarar temple outer prakaram in less than 36 years?
were the cambodian carvings on the stone itself? are there other cambodian looking sculptures in airavateeshwar temple?
incidentally who was this kambosa rajan?? can we assume that the date of the inscription is the close to year the gift was given. if so
tried to check this out and chanced on this leture note ( to know more scroll down to the last...you would be presently surprised by who presided over the lecture>>>>>)
Nothing is known of Jayavarman VI. He died in 1107 A.D. and was succeeded by his elder brother Dharamndravarman I (No. 162). The latter being well advanced in age was unwilling to assume the burden of royalty, but had to yield to the wishes of the people, who were left without a protector at his brother's death. Dharamndravarman was defeated by Suryavarman II, the 'daughter's son of his sister (No. 180), and the latter ascended the throne in 1113 A.D. (No. 165) . He is expressly said in two different Inss. (Nos. 165, 171) to have reunited the two kingdoms in Kambuja. It is obvious that one of these was ruled by Dharanindravarman, and probably the other was under a descendant of Haravarman III, both of whom were defeated by Suryavarman.14 Suryavarman was consecrated by Divakara Pandita who also initiated him into the mysteries of Vrah Guhya (the Great Secret) , probably a tantric cult.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ( WHAT IS THIS GREAT SECRET..COULD IT BE A REF TO OUR CHIDAMBARA RAHASIYAM) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The king performed Kotihoma, Lakshahoma, and the Mahahoma as well as various sacrifices to the ancestors (Nos. 167, 168). The cult of Bhadresvara, whose sacred temple was in Vat Phu, the primitive capital of Kambuja, seems to have come into porminence about this time (No. 170). Suryavarman further earned undying fame by constructing the famous Angkor Vat one of the wonders of the world. Suryavarman sent two embassies to China in 1117 and 1121 A.D.,The Chinese Emperor conferred high titles on the Kambuja king whose dominions are said, in the Chinese annals, to have extended from Champa to Lower Burma and included the northern part of Malay Peninsula up to the Bay of Bandon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PREFACE In July 1942 I was invited by the university of Madras to deliver a course of lectures under the Sir William Meyer (Endowment) Lectureship, 1942-43. These lectures are published here in the form in which I delivered them, early in March 1943, with the addition of the footnotes and a list of Inscriptions, on which the study of the subject is primarily based.
The scope and object of these lectures have been sufficiently indicated at the beginning of Lecture I, and I shall consider my labours amply rewarded if they serve to awaken an interest in, and promote the study of a highly important but little-known subject. The series of works on ancient Indian colonisation in the Far East which I planned nearly twenty years ago have not yet been completed. Three volumes dealing with Champa (Annam) and Suvarniadvipa (Malayasia) are out, and the remaining two volumes dealing with Kambuja (Cambodia) , Burma and Siam still await publication. These two volumes will deal more comprehensively with the subject covered by these lectures. In view of the present situation in the country, it is difficult to say when, if ever, those two volumes will see the light of the day. Till then, the present work may be regarded as completing the series of my studies on the history of ancient Indian colonies in the Far East. As inscriptions have been frequently referred to in the course of these lectures, I have added at the end a list of old Kambuja inscriptions, arranged chronologically as far as possible. The serial number is quoted in the text against each inscription to enable the reader to find out the necessary details by a reference to the list. In some cases a short summary is given of the contents of the Inscription in order to draw the attention of the reader either to its general importance or to certain special features to which it has not been possible to refer in the body of these lectures. The list is not, of course, exhaustive, the total number of Kambuja inscriptions, so far discovered, amounting to nearly 900. And it is needless to add that most of the inscriptions contain a great deal more than it has been possible to indicate in the short summaries of contents . In conclusion I take this opportunity to thank most sincerely the Syndicate of the University of Madras for having invited me to deliver these lectures an invitation, which I consider to be a high distinction and a great privilege. I would also like to offer cordial thanks to my esteemed friend Prof. K. A. Nilakanta Sastri M.A., who presided over these lectures, and whose company and hospitality I enjoyed in ample measure during my stay at Madras. 4 BEPIN PAL ROAD - KALIGHAT, CALCUTTA, C R C. MAJUMDAR. MAY 8, 1943. )
> > I think Far- East connections with Tamil Kings need to be > consolidated. > >
at Vat Phou According to a Chinese source (History of Sui), dated AD 589, a temple dedicated to Shiva "Bhadresvara" was built on the top of the mountain. ...
hi venkat.....i think i am jumping the gun here a bit, but being the first person ( apart from you ofcourse) to be given the honor of a sneak peak of your Tillaiyil oru Kollaikaran....cant control
i cant find apt words to describe these feelings...i will try my best to be as vague as possible on the storyline for obvious reasons ---- NEVER hv i been so engrossed into a work as yours..fast paced, action packed, emotion filled...the energy and intent builds right from the first page upto to the cresendo of the climax..small nuggets of gold interspread within these....can we call it venkat's touches.....hats off
..(i was actually reading them on my handheld in an airport lounge...i was literally overcome with emotion, reduced to tears,... mei silirthathu, that too so many times, that people around me were staring at me. I was so oblivious to my surroundings that i didnt realise that everyone had boarded the flight and the stewards had to come and fetch me.)
..... the characters breathe life and the way your intervined historical events/places....the descriptive scenes of chidambaram temple ...it was almost like watching a movie...(ooops)...being centered around a thief, a dancer and the god of dance, i was anxious that swati might bring memories of sivagami, but credit to you - the powerfullness of your portrayal shows no shades of anyone else and she comes out as a glittering jewel on her own. your style is amazing ...it almost feels like you are transported back in time and are actually watching the events unfold in front of you...
Advance wishes and i will see chidambaram & the 3000 or should it be 2999 in new light henceforth....( tillai better be prepared, many more people are going to check the walls, roof, steps for the kamboj stone soon) cant wait to see the print version.