Ponniyin Selvan Varalaatru Peravai

Sorry dont understand your question?

meantime, would it be possible for us to seek out ponniyin selvar's
olai from naadi josiers of today...we do know his parents, siblings
info etc....if so then we could get more dope on him from his
horoscope..what says.

vj

of course sir - but i would still give an arm and a leg, if some
josier can pull our AK's naadi and tell us how he died..and who
killed him

> hey......
> who killed Ps's brother???

that's an question that's never gonna be answered by anyone -:)
What is your take in it????


ever tried. ever failed. no matter.
try again. fail again. fail better.

Thanks Vijaya Kumar for an interesting & detailed analysis. Motivates me to read Nilakanta Sastri which I have been wanting to but not got around to do it .
SR

No not just to look for ans to AK's assasination. I have been planning to read the book for a better understanding of Chola history. You may get other works by him from Higginbothams or definitely Connemara library.

I envy you all. You have all the time in the world to read such great books.
I should accept that I stopped reading a couple of years back. Heavy
traveling and tight schedules to meet takes everything away from me.

~ Udanx

> Heavy
> traveling and tight schedules to meet takes everything away from me.

:-))
I may be wrong - but what I notice in general is that some of the
busiest people on this earth have been the most voracious readers.

Recently i had the good fortune of attending a seminar of Mr. Robin
sharma ( author of the international acclaimed Monk who sold his
Ferrari) - its another story that i first need to know how to get the
ferrari.

But one of the few things he said was profound - he calls himself a
professional distruber - in this role he does meet with quite a few
top CEO's - he says he asks not to see their collection of Rolls
royces, watches, antiques - but to see their library...

with the advent of the net, pdfs, ebooks and now podcasts - it does
take only a small effort to get into the habit of arivu kozhumudal..

vj

Thanks VJ for clearing Sembian Maadevi based on KAN. I was kind of upset after reading Udayar.
Shobha

Hi Madhu;

Super conspiracy theory. Ive already bought this up and this theory has been
trashed by this group. Im also of the opinion RRC is the ONLY person in that
koottam who had the skill and intellect to pull of such a deed and he knew
he could get away with it.
We have all been brainwashed by Kalki to imagine RRC as a saint but there
was no way he could have been like that and ruled that big an empire. He had
to be ruthless and ambitious. There was no way he could become "Raja Raja"
with AK still alive. AK would have become an even bigger conqueror if he had
been alive. Of all the motives RRC's and Nandhini's seem the most probable.
But Nandhini was present when AK was murdered and she is not that stupid!!
That eliminates her. By the process of elimination RRC is the culprit.
Mr.SPS referred a book which talks about this subject and has been virtually
thrashed by historians.
I think RRC as a murderer warrants a separate thread atleast in this group.
This should be done atleast to eliminate him from future suspicions.
There is no evidence on how AK was murdered so i dont think we can eliminate
RRC.

hi,

please refer previous posts on ephigraphical evidences - RRC was a
popular prince, the throne was served to him on a plate - but he let
go - and their reading - especially of KAN. However keeping aside
these, the options are

1. RRC consipires and kills AK - however, this argument is weak-
since it would have been much easy for him to put the blame of UC,
Ravidasan and co then and there - no tv, internet email then - he
could have ensured swift execution, a few tom tommers annoucing to
the public and that would have been it - why wait for 15 years

2. assume RRC and UC - are heading the two groups. both collude and
bump AK. Both groups equally pitted - so inorder not to split the
kingdom, RRC agrees to step aside with a compromise formula - that
he will rule after Uc. But then the flaw is - UC would have gained
more power during 15 years of rule and also RRC was away on so many
battles - a 15 year time frame is too large for those days.. so why
didnt UC blood line not follow him and why RRc was allowed to come
to power after UC. ( again matter of contention - as Madurantaka -
said be he son of Uc and held important adminstrative positions in
RRC rule, is he the son on UC) - refer prev threads in the group on
this.

3. assume UC bumped of AK. his faction more powerful than RRC - so
RRc gives way, saying let bygones be bygones - lets not wash dirty
linen in public - you rule, but after you i will be in - again weak
argument on the succession issue. Uc ruled well - general peace and
prosperity, temple building etc - must have got enough good will
among the masses to ensure his lineage ruled. also could have made
sure RRC fades away into insignificane.

4. Assume none knew who bumped off AK -UC and RRC both vie for the
throne - both faction equally matched. hence rrc steps aside and
since he thought it was pandya abuthivigal and goes after them. in
between - RRC uncovers the plot that Uc and gang did it - UC is
served an ultimatum, his family disowns him, but he is allowed to
keep his honor intact - asked to accquit the throne and go away ( or
bumped off). RRc assumes power and nails the rest of the
conspirators.

there is another twist to this plot, which KAN seems to have
ignored - RJC takes the coronation name of Madurantakan II, why
would he do it - ie take the tranished name of the man who killed
his own uncle.

5. Ravidasan and gang polish of AK on behalf of pandiyan. UC and RRc
both innocent. however, none of the assasins are caught. Kundavai
and Anirudhar fear for the life of RRC under these circumstances -
hence put up UC to the throne - while RRC moves around freely and
cleans up the country. find who the conspirators are - once they
are exposed, he comes to power sending off UC to his pilgrimage and
irai pani - gets the throne and convicts the gang..

vj

I think RJC assumed the title of Madurantakan to denote that he was the terminator of Pandyas(Madurai).

afterall it is said that the
> vanar kulam sides with those in power. refering to prof Jb's note
> that they served the pandyas once the chola power vanned.)
>


a rastrakuta princess was the chief queen of rrc. was she kundavai's
daughter, or sister in law?

hi, not able to get it...can you elaborate.

also

RRC queen Panchavan mahadevi
RJC queen Pancavan Madeviyar

Raja than ore perai thirupi thirpi vechu vechu confuse panrangana,
raniyuma...

RRC, Kundavai, VD and Kalki will be turning in their graves if they
happen to read their names bandied about in such a manner. I wish we
solve this crime quickly and punish the guilty posthumously. 99% of the
time, the simple and the obvious is the right solution.

Sampath

Hi all

All said and done, I dont believe RRC could have committed such heinous crime of killing his own brother. I do not believe Sembian Madevi would have done so too.

Pandiya or Pallava angle cannot be dismissed. I have always been suspicious of Pallava parthibendra.

posting this interesting note for Prof JB from agathiar.



When I was working in the State of Kelantan in the
East Coast of Malaya, I was posted to the General Hospital of
the State capital called Kota Bahru.
I was taking a very active part in politics, in religious
activities and youth activities at that time. I was closely
associated
with ministers; I founded the Malaysia Hindu Sangam of Kelantan State
and was its first president. I was the founder and co-ordinator of
Tamil Youth Bell Club for the States of Trengganu and Kelantan.
Anyone coming to Kelantan would make it a point to visit me
and spend time with me, especially the Indian VIP's.
One day I received a letter from one Swamiji about
another Swamiji. He was from ThirukkuLambur.
On the stipulated day, he arrived.
But he was far from looking like a Swamiji.


He had a rugged and rustic look. He was wearing a silk jibba
and eight mulza veshti. He had an angavasthram. His hair was grown
upto the nape of his neck into a type of Baghavathar Crop. He had
a thick bristling moustache. There were streaks of grey in his hair
and moustache. He was tall and well-built. The complexion was dark.
His eyes were large and bulging and his vision was divergent.
He looked more like a Rasputin without beard.
He looked like having arrived from some medieval times by
a time-machine.
He stayed in our house for more than a month. But this was the
beginning of a friendship which lasted for several years. He made
several trips from India and followed us to several places wherever
we went.
His name was Alzagu Ramaiyya. He said that he belonged to
a branch of the Cholzas. In fact, he had a family name - 'Cholzagar'.
He had a strange story to tell.
When he was young, he was a rowdy. He used to play pranks.
One day he was sleeping in a KaLi temple. He had a dream in
which KaLi appeared and asked him to drink a small vessel of honey.
She also wrote some atcharam on his tongue with Her Trisulam.
Chenthamilz.
The noteworthy thing here, is that, he was illiterate.
When he received letters from India, he would ask one of us
to read them for him. And somebody would have to write his letters
for him.
But yet, he sang songs and poems like a versatile poet. And
he could speak in clear well-versed Tamil. He could give speeches
in good Tamil. And he would speak about religion, spirituality, and
ithihasas and puranas.
So we named him 'The Kavirayar'.
But he preferred to call himself by another name -
'Kalai Maa Muni'.

About the Kavirayar belonging to the Cholza clan.......

The Cholzas have a legendary history from the dim past.
Manunidhi Cholzan, Sibi, and some others have a remote past.
During the third Sangam, we come across Karikalan,
NalangiLLi, NalangiLLi, an several others. Karikaalan's many
descendants started several royal dynasties in India and South
East Asia.
They were dormant for 600 years. We come across
KopperunchOlzan, and the father of Mangayarkkarasi wife of
NerumARa Pandyan, and a few others.

The Cholzas were under the Pallavas. In the frequent wars
waged by the Pallavas and the Pandyas, the Cholzas took sides.
Then when both the overlords wore themselves out, the Cholzas
took over from the Pallavas. Then they overcame the Pandyas
and conquered a large territory. Thus the Imperial Cholzas came
into being. RajaRaja and Rajendra belong to this line.

In 1216, Maravaraman Sundara Pandya I over-ran the
Chola Empire during the rule of Kuloththunga III. Soon after
the defeat, Kuloththunga died. His son RajaRaja III came to
the throne. But during the war, he was imprisoned by his own
feudatory, Kopperunjingga of Thirukkovaluur.
Due to the intervention of the Hoysala emperor of
Mysore, who happened to be RajaRaja's father-in-law,
MS Pandya gave back the Chola Mandala to RajaRaja III.
But something happened. So MS Pandya attacked again in
1246. Soon after that MSPandya died and two kings came
to power in quick succession. They were weak. The Hoysala
NaraSimha made use of this opportunity because by this time
he had become the father-in-law of Maravarman Sundara
Pandya II also. So he extended his territory from Mysore
right across Coimbatore, Dindigal, and Tiruchi where he built
a huge fortress at Samayapuram.
Thus he craeted a Hoysala wedge in Tamilnadu,
effectively separating the Cholzas in the north and the
Pandyas in the south.

The last Chola emperor belonging to the Imperial Cholas
was Rajendra III. He came to the throne in 1256 A.D. He was
the son of RajaRaja III.

He defeated MS Pandya II in a war. But the Hoysala
took the Pandiyan side this time, to prevent a revival of
Cholziyan Imperialism. But Jatavarman Sundara Pandya, the
greatest conqueror among the later Pandyas came to power
in 1251.

He started on an expansionist policy and conquered Chera,
Chola,Ceylon and the Telugu Choda territories and also got rid
of the Hoysalas.

But JS Pandya died in 1268 and was succeeded by
Maravarman Kulasekhara Pandya, the last of the Grand Pandyas.

There was a last major war in which Rajendra III allied
himself with Hoysala Ramanatha, the son of Narasimha. But this
grand alliance was totally defeated by MKPandya.
This war took place in 1279.
And that is the last that we hear of Rajendra III and
the Cholas.
There is a group of people belonging to a particular
community. They claim to be the descendants of the Cholas.
Until about 40 years ago, one of the families belonging to
this community used to hold a symbolic coronation ceremony
in the Chidhambaram Temple just as their fore-runners did.

The Kavirayar belongs to one of the kudis of this clan of
people. They call themselves 'Cholzagar' which is occassionally
used as a title.

He had the help of a deity who used to do his bidding.
The deity carried a weapon called 'uLi' and used to ride a horse.
I am concealing his name. This is a different deity. Not the one
that you think.
There were also other deities whom he would invoke at times.
Also some spirits which would come to him when called.
Normally he would apply high quality perfumes. He is
seldom without them. But there were times when some bad odour
would be around when he is involved in doing some 'kalzichchal'
for somebody.
But when he passes into the Kavirayar personality, he does
not do all this type of work.
It was in 1984.
I was in a place called Kota Tinggi. The Kavirayar had come
to a place called Malacca on his own. He was staying at someone's
house. But his frequent pujais disturbed the household very much
and they sent him to Kota T