Pallava Dynasty - Simhavishnu
  • Hi,
    With sugesstions from Satish, I will keep the posts short so that members will
    not get bored reading this.
    Today I will talk about Simhavishnu, all references are from 'The Pallavas' by

    Simhavishnu is the first Pallava king, from onward whose we have many evidences
    to support genealogy. As per Velurpalaiyam plates (SII, III/II, p 510), it is
    stated, "quickly seized the country of Cholas embellished by the daughter of
    Kavira (river Kaveri), whose ornaments are the forests of paddy and where (are
    found) brilliant groves of areca (palms).”This suggests that Simhavishnu
    acquired Chola region which was not with Pallavas before.

    Kasakudi plates (SII Vol II Part III, p 356) say that Simhavishnu vanquished
    Malaya, Kalabhra, Malava, Chola, Pandya, the Simhala who was proud of strength
    of his arms, and the Kerala. This suggests that the military operation to
    conquer Chola region was not a easy one as many of the southern kings got
    together to oppose this.
    These two epigraphical evidences Dubreuil gave in describing Simhavishnu.

    1. Where was Simhavishnu reigning when he conquered Chola region? Kanchi or
    somewhere else?
    2. Till now we have seen mostly invasions into Pallava domain from outside,
    mostly from Chalukyas. We have not seen any invasionby Pallavas into other's
    domain, except the reactive actions on some invasions. Was this Chola war a
    reaction of invasion or started by Pallavas?
    3. Who would be the Chola king/representative in this war?
    3. We can rely on epigraphical evidences, however we should also look into the
    architecture to understand the genealogy. Is there any monument in existence of
    his reign?
  • Dear Satheesh

    Mangayarkarasi w/o Nindraseer Nedumaran ( mahendra period) is a Chola princess according to Thevaram.

    Any further news?
  • Dear Sankar,

    Pandiyan Kadunkon's grand son, Pandiyan Maravarman's son, Chendan was ruling
    Pandya Kingdom during Mahendravarman period.

    " மற்றவர்க்கு மருவினிய ஒரு மகனாகி மண்மகளை மறுக்கடிந்து விக்ரமத்தின்
    வெளிற்பட்டு விலங்கவேல் பொறி வேந்தர் வேந்தன் சிலைத் தடக்கைக் கொலைக் களிற்றுச்
    செழியன் வானவன் செங்கோற் சேந்தன்” ( Page 291.309. Epi. Ind. XVII)"

    Chendan's Son Nedumaaran was Mangaiyarkarasi's husband who was converted
    from Jain to Saivam by Thiru Gnana Sambandhar. "Niriai konda sindhaiyaan
    nelveli venru ninra seer Nedumaaran" (நிறைக் கொண்ட சிந்தையான் நெல்வேலி வென்ற
    நின்ற சீர் நெடுமாறன்” as sung by Sundara moorthi naayanaar.
  • Dear satish

    who were the cholas then? mangayarkkarasi's father?

    this nedumaran's sister was married to narasimha?
  • Hi Satish,
    Regarding point 4 - As per Mangadapattu inscription of Mahendravarman I, he
    constructed the temple without mortar, brick etc. It is assumed that this is the
    first such creation in Tondamandalam region. Singapuram is also a cave temple,
    and if it was started by Simhavarman then why Mahendravarman put such an
    inscription at Mangadapattu. It may be that Simhavarman did start Singapuram and
    died before it was completed. Later on it was finished by Mahendravarman, but if
    this is the case, I assume that Mahendravarman should first finish his father's
    project before starting his own in Mangadapattu.
    Many scholars did believe that rock-cut style was started by Mahendravarman
    only, and it was not existing before in Tamil country.
    The above comments are only about cave temples, but there are evidences that
    temples were constructed, in their normal brick, mortar form, before the reign
    of Mahendravarman. Charudevi's grant, one of the early Prakrit grants, was
    issued for a temple of Narayan in Dalur. As per the time of Dubreuil, he did not
    have any information about existence of such a temple which can be dated before
    Mahendravarman. However he wrote this book in 1917, and a long time has passed
    since then. Do we have information of any previous temple now, or as we assume
    that temples were made of perishable materials hence none has survived till now.
  • Two more doubts from my side:

    1. Pandya caves are supposed to be older than Mahendra. Then how can he claim to be the first? or the reference is only for his country ie thonadai mandalam.

    2. There are lot of discussions on Gomugam not present in earlier temples and that is told as a proof of No abishegam those days.

    There are references of abishegam in Thevaram. But again it can be considered either as Lord Shiva himself taking bath or Abishegam by devotees to the lingam. any idea on that?
  • And the Thillai Vazh andhanar left the chola country to chera's hill country - leaving only one person to do the pooja.That may be one reason for their front kudumi.

    நல்கா ராகிச் சேரலன்
    தன் மலைநாடனைய நண்ணுவார்

    They followed the rule as per the rule book.
  • Coining of the word was the result of a backlash against sanskrit/aryan domination. Therefore, eistence of any temple before the nayanmars/alwars is improbable.
    We should not labour under the impression that Dravidians invented God and worship. World history is against such a misleading proposition.
    R. Narasimhan
  • Hi Saurabh / Sateesh,
    Narashimavarman also had a title of Simhavishnu. K R Srinivasan also sums up based on this, stylization and similarity between Kottravai and Ranganatha form to those found in Mallai to post Mahendravarman, which could be during Narashimavarman or even Parameswara Varman.
    Hence the claim of Mahendara at Mandagapattu as the first rock cut structure in that area is true.
  • Hi,
    I did not get your point, to my understanding 'Narayana' is a form of Vishnu.
    How come 'Aryan' is coming into the picture?
  • Narayan is a coined word.
    It is a form of getting an identity by the non-aryans.
    You should go by the projected meaning of their new identity for their god
    That is why the in as nayanmars!!
    Manickavasagar is an aryan, hence he is not a nayanmar!!
    "kandu konden narayana ennum namam" of Thirumangai Alwar.
    R. Narasimhan
  • Temples were present in TN even in sangam age.
    Purananooru - " Murugan Kottathu Kalam thoda magalir" line clearly indicatea: Presence of templeb: certain rules were also practiced. in this case women in periods not touching the utensils of the temple.299. கலம் தொடா மகளிர்!

    பாடியவர்: பொன் முடியார்

    திணை: நொச்சி துறை: குதிரை மறம்

    பருத்தி வேலிச் சீறூர் மன்னன்

    உழுத்துஅதர் உண்ட ஓய்நடைப் புரவி,

    கடல்மண்டு தோணியின், படைமுகம் போழ_

    நெய்ம்மிதி அருந்திய, கொய்சுவல் எருத்தின்,

    தண்ணடை மன்னர், தாருடைப் புரவி,

    அணங்குஉடை முருகன் கோட்டத்துக்

    கலம்தொடா மகளிரின், இகழ்ந்துநின் றவ்வே.
  • I'd really have to dispute that; Narayana Suktam is Vedic (or at least, from
    an Upanishad), and the etymology of Narayana is (among others) "The one who
    rests (ayana) in water (naara)", or "The one (nara) who is the ultimate goal
  • Dear Sankar,

    I have no information about the father of Mangaiyarkarasi though I have read
    she is from Chozha kingdom.

    Let me explore...
  • Hi Arvind & Saurab,

    I didn't mean that the cave temple was excavated by Simhavishnu, he might
    have started a temple (may be) with brick then later his successors would
    have converted to cave temple. Since, a place for a temple already existed
    it is easy for them to carryout their designs. Who knows the inscription
    hidden under the brick work may contain some information!
  • Dear Sir,
    In Sivagamiyin Sabatham, 4th Volume, Chapter 10 - Kalki mentions about Mangayarkarasi... I am quoting that paragraph; pls see if it is useful...
    உறையூரில் நிலைபெற்ற சோழ வம்சத்து மன்னர்கள் ஒரு சிறு ராஜ்யத்துக்கு உரியவர்களாயிருந்தார்கள். கொடும்பாளூர்க் கிளை வம்சத்தின் பிரதிநிதியாக அப்போது விளங்கிய செம்பியன் வளவனுக்குப் புத்திர பாக்கியம் இல்லை. குலத்தை விளங்க வைக்க ஒரு புதல்வி மட்டுமே இருந்தாள். அந்த அருமைக் குமாரிக்கு 'மங்கையர்க்கரசி' என்ற செல்வப் பெயரைச் செம்பியன் வளவன் சூட்டினான். ஆசை
    காரணமாகத் தகப்பன் சூட்டிய பெயர் என்றாலும் பெண்ணைப் பார்த்தவர்கள் அனைவரும் இத்தகைய பெண்ணுக்கு இந்தப் பெயரே தகும் என்றார்கள்.
  • Can any one have details of the epigraphs mentioned in the "". Already Gokul pointed out that - Lalgudi is not a single one but 2 different epigraphs.

    Just if we can see all the 3 - we can have an idea that - Manivasgar is pre so and so period in the first place.
  • Dear Vardhini,
    I am sorry to say that I do not understand Tamil. It would be very nice if
    mail content can be translated into English, however it be an extra effort on
    your side. I am trying to get some Tamil books in English so that whenever such
    a reference is quoted, I can refer my books and understand the content.
  • Dear Mr. Saurabh,
    I have tried to translate it into English...
    "The kings
    of the Chola clan who were in Uraiyur were ruling over a small kingdom. The branch
    of Kodumbalur clan’s representative was Sembian Valavan who did not have any
    sons. He had only one daughter and he named her as Mangayarkkarasi. Though he
    named her out of his love, those who saw the girl said that this could be right
    name for the girl. (Mangayarkkarasi – means the queen for all women)"
    This comes in the novel Sivagamiyin Sabatham written by Kalki, which describes the story of how Narasimhavarman defeated Pulikesi and destroyed Vatapi.

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