Name one tamil women you would take the efforts use the time machine and me.
  • Let me twist the topic ,
    Who would be the most interesting /beautiful Tamil women who would be worth seeing in the past?

    Madhavi of Silapadikaram would be my choice or even Kannaki while she is burning Mathurai!!
  • mangayarkarasi
  • Bharatiyar's wife. To understand the turmoil and sacrifices she had to face as Bhartiyar's wife.

  • The one who gave Vinayagar Agaval. I know only her :)
  • Chellammal Bharathi.The silent pillar of support behind Mahakavi Bharathi.
  • Without battling an eyelid

    if we can chose another, Rani Lakshmi Bai aka Jhansi Rani & Mother of Pondicherry.
  • is that not a deal for the spouse, a thorn studded path to immortality ?
    Anyone who treads the path of being a rebel (out of box thinkers) has this situation for their family. Infact, I pity Baarathiyar during his last years where he was forced to move back into a regular job.

    Thats when, the song 'Nallathor veenai seithe' makes subtle sense.

    - R
  • M.S Subbulakshmi.

    To answer Vairam's question on most beautiful women..that is pretty tough..madhavi yes but am not hugely enamored by her character (beauty to me is looks + character). Nandhini or Kundhavai..certainly yes.

    Shoba - there is no proof Avvaiyar was a woman so you may have to choose again :)

  • Yes Kasturba Gandhi belongs in same league. I remember this story of Bharathi's wife, she borrows a small quantity of rice from neighbors to cook after a long period of starvation and goes to take the meantime the great poet had scattered the rice to sparrows and was penning his newest poem on chittukuruvis..

    It takes a lot to be a celebrity's wife, regardless it is debatable if they are celebrities in their own right.
  • > Shoba - there is no proof Avvaiyar was a woman so you may have to choose again :)

    Ithenna puthu bit !!!! Thamizh moothaati or ???

    intha sabhai la enna ellam case oda pogutho...

    iraiva... intha ooruku pazhi nerthal unakindri enakkilai :-)
  • Hi Malathi
    This clearly shows you haven't read Silapadikaram or Manimekalai. Madhavi was very virtuous. She didnt go against the customs of those days.
    She was so faithful to Kovalan that Kannaki allowed her to do last rites for Kovalan(which are usuaally performed by the wife).
    After Kovalan's death she became a saint and also raised her daughter to be a saint(Story of Manimekalai).
  • Hi Vairam, i don't make claims to have read both epics in detail but have a rough idea. I didnt mean the lady was not 'virtuous' - virtue is different from strength of character, i only said i was not hugely enamored by anything she did to name her as one of my favorites (same like Vaanadhi) - it is just a choice nothing to debate about.
  • Malathi: am not sure how this conclusion was made on Madhavi.

    I am no expert on these books, but whatever I read and cross referenced - madhavi was no less than Kannagi.

    Infact, I faintly remember a debate (have to search for the links) on why Madhavi was a sincere 'karpukarasi' also.

    For a person with Madhavi's 'job responsibility' to bear a child for a specific person is a big task. The very reason she accepted Kovalan for that regard says something.

    - R
  • Ravi, we have talked a lot on avvaiyar's origins..nothing new..most of us who have KBS image in mind think like that that is all..If i get time will search and post some old threads.

  • Aiyoooo Ravi/Vairam..give me a break pa..did not word it not voting for karpukkarasis be it Kannagi or Madhavi. Strength of character is not just karpu it means self confidence and doing something unique and in this regard they dont appeal to me..i picked Nandini or Kundavi that is all. No debates fellas it was just a choice.
  • >> She was so faithful to Kovalan that Kannaki allowed her to do last rites for Kovalan(which are usuaally performed by the wife)

    Was this last rites issue not connected to the progeny factor?
  • Got your point :-)

    Also, Madhavi did something unique in bearing a child for Kovalan and raising her as a saint. That was her USP :-)

    - R
  • Most Probably ...
    but also due to the fact Kovalan live more years with Madhavi than with Kannagi...
    Kannagi acknowledged her faithfulness.
  • IF you really want to know the uniqueness of Madhavi you should read Silapathikaram. A whole chapter is dedicated to to her dance performance before the Chola King.
    She is supposed to have been one of the greatest dancers.
    Last week I went to see performance of a friend who is Kuttiyatam artist .
    Kuttiyatam is an dance/drama form rite from Sangam literature later transformed into Sanskrit Theater. The make up of women is absolutely brilliant and they look like goddess when they are in the stage.
    So I really from then wanted to see how great Madhavi would have looked and performed before the Chola King.

    Other than her dancing ablility her USP was though being born in caste of Courtesan , against all odds she became and monk and more than that she saved her daughter from becoming ad courtesan and made her a monk too.(Though I wouldnt want meet her for this quality!)
  • Got it.

    Interesting fact though, taking link back to the jains rituals discussion, ilanko adigal being a jain, the last rites here to be done by the person who has a child (keeping aside the kanagi let her).

    Another question I had on this rites issue:
    Was this before the burning of Madurai or right after the death of Kovalan by beheading ?
    If it was after Kovalan death, how did Madhavi know of news and come down with the kid.
    If it was after burning of madurai, was kannagi not in a state of 'burn what i see' to do this work?

    Forgive my ignorance, but this question has been bothering me for sometime now.

    - R
  • Malathi
    Why don't we give her the benefit of doubt & add strength tp our gender?  :))
  • Vairam, that is really good to know :) I also very much liked one post you had some time ago on your blog on Madhavi's feelings towards Kovalan.

    How did you feel the dance form was adopted to present day stage, would you care to write more on that? One of my biggest grouses with PS is that nobody wants to discuss performing arts, and it woul be great to know more. Am also asking since lot of dancers 'claim' to have rescued traditional forms and make a mess out of it. Like the late actress Padhmini did a 'theru koothu' type Valli Thirumanam which got totally panned by critics. Padhmini by the way was referred to as a 'modern day Madhavi' by many for her looks and contribution to dance. Whether she really was is another matter.

  • Mathavi pon mayilal is not from thillana mohanambal
    It is from irumalargal, much later movie
  • Dear,
    I want to meet Mullai, naa parthasary vital character in mani pallavam.
  • Great dance seqence of padmini
    Aaddal kanneero
    Parkadal alai meethe

    Vanchi kottai vaalepan - kaanum kannum kalandhu
    Apart from the one you had listed
  • One interesting point to note....
    The Auvaiyar who got nellikani from Adhyaman (This Auvaiyar is sure a women) couldn't have been more than 40 years old.
    The avg life expectencey of woem 2000 years ago in Tamil Nadu was around 30-40 years... you can infer this from the words they used describe women's ages
  • Hi arvind

    i had said other than nalanthaana>..
  • Hi
    there was kattabomman movie song too
    kannadasan roped in baby kamala in his potti movie sivagangai seemai

  • Kattabomman - tak tak enna adikadi thudikum
  • kattabomman- sivagangai seemai were 2 movies taken parallelly in high secrecy from the other unit
    only one actress acted in both


  • Silapathigaram the main character is madhavi not kovalan or kannagi.
    Her capability was not confined to dancing, she was art personified. Kovlan feels inferior before her intellect which leads to their seperation (kanal vaari sequence)
    Kannagi is side character who appears time to time in the epic. Her strength was stead fast devotion to her husband. Her weakness complete lack of understanding of the world around her.

    Madhavi is continuously evolving through the epic from a playful girl to sainthood. While other characters are fairly flat in their intellectual evolution.
  • silapadhikaram was about evolution of most charecter in different fields

    kovalan from a rich playboy to a pauper forced to sell his wife's jewellr

    kannagi the timid wife evolves to one who challenges a emperor in court

    nedunchezhian from a just king to one shivering before a housewife who proves he has erred

    mathavi too evolves.
  • These are evolution of characters
    I was mentioning about intellectual evolution
    What happens to kannagi is a emotional outburst
    Kovalan suffers from financial ruin and more importantly looses self esteem
  • right you are. s.varalaskhmi

    she was kavingnars sister in law.

  • Aadal kaneero and other b/w movies like thooku thooki got the best of her dance talent undiluted by commercialism. After color movies came in it gave way to gymnastics with arms and legs flaying wildly to equally loud music. Thillana - the original age of the heroine was 18 and hero early 20s. Sivaji and Padhmini were good actors but surely could not pass that age..also dance etc totally commercialised. I believe TM was a hit due to the incredible side cast with almost all of the comedy genuises of tamil cinema together - nagesh, thangavelu, balaiah and manorama.

    Padhmini by the way commercialised classical dance to the extent of 'arangetram' in one year in the states for her students. She got a lot of flak in return from the dance community.
  • I believe TM was a hit due to the incredible side cast with almost all of the comedy genuises of tamil cinema together - nagesh, thangavelu, balaiah and manorama.

    yes indeed, and really if you had not read the book sivaji and padmini never seemed out of place

    and talking of Nagesh as Vaithi the pimp - it was his master piece

    and lets all pay homage to him- nagesh's thalai devasan falls tomorrow

  • Thendral vandhu veesaadho - S. Varalakshmi & T.S.Bagavathi
    in sivagangai seemai

    I think one of the last times the actor and actress themselves sang the sound track

    an actress with phenomenal voice

    especially thaalaatus. even upto kamal's guna she sang songs.
  • Just a random thought

    how many tamil women of substance would we know if we took the time machine and went back 1899 and before

    warriors- velu nachair and

    queens rani mangammal

    poets- avvaiyar

    saints karaikal ammaiyar, mangaiyarkarasi

    good wives- vasuki, vanathi

    good sisters punithavathi, kunthavi

    good mothers isai gnaniar

    my god what happenned?
    why so less. any ideas maloo?

  • good sister - its Thilakavathy not Punithavathi

    we have poets like Vennikuyathiyaar, Velliveedhiyaar

    good wife -Thiruvenkaatu Nangai (wife of Paranjothi aka Siruthondar)
  • Venkat -
    Music - Veenai Dhanammal, the great trio of DKP/MLV/MSS, T Brinda/Mukta (most of these names are in Carnatic Summer)
    Dance - T Bala Saraswati, Rukmini Arundale , Kamala Lakshman.
    Authors - Lakshmi, Va Mu Kodhainayaki

    I was just reading a link on Va Mu Kodhai

    More when i think about..

  • SV was a prolific singer in telugu also. I have many of her rare collections on dvd, a pleasure to hear and watch too .

    She was a much better singer than the more popular Bhanumathi, lost her voice with a rare throat infection after kannadasan's bro stripped her of all her earnings and got it back after a prolonged treatment after which she could not sing i believe. Did she sing in Guna, Venkat, I never knew?
  • guna
    unnai naan arivEn, ennaiyandri yaar arivaar.....

    the song comes twice.
    once it is by varalakshmi


  • see the song in youtube
  • kakkai padiniyar, okkur masathiyar, Kamakkanniyar,

    The other 2 Avvayars

    samavai ( thiruppathi fame), Sangili, Paravai nachiyar, Poompavai.

    Sembian madevi,

    I think we can make a list but i do agree we have comparitively lesser.
  • Hi
    thanks for correcting. thilakavathi indeed.
    punithavathi was karaikal ammaiyaars actual name

  • I think my list was missing

    Rani Lakshmi Bai
    Pondicherry Mother

    - R

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