As far as I have read kalki,the only woman who he has portrayed with great qualities is kundavai.I dont mean that other female characters portrayed by him are bad,but kundavai has many qualities which no other character of his has.She dreams of empire building,governs a country,does counter espoinage and finally plays a crucial role in fame of chola empire.Had she ruled chola nadu instead of arulmozi,she would have made a great queen.
Sivakami is pushed to politics because of her affair with NV and the infatuation naganadhi has on her.She too is the reason for building of pallava empire,but again hers is a destructive power.She wants revenge like nandini-she doesnt talk much about a great pallava empire.She doesnt have dreams like kundavai had.
Most other women like vanathi,manimegalai are replicas of heroines of tamil movies of 1940's and 1950's.Poonguzali is a bit odd,but finally she too becomes traditional after marrying sendan amuthan.
In other social novels of kalki the same traditional womenhood is portrayed.In thiyaga boomi heroine throws away her husband and becomes a freedom fighter,but even there she tries to live the normal life of a housewife and only when its refused to her she turns into a 'puratchi pen'.
But whereas most of the male characters of kalki have megalomaniacal dreams.vanthiya thevan,parthibendran,karikalan,arul mozi all have a dream.Even pinagabani has a mega dream.People like alwarkadiyan,anirudhar,naganandhi,paranjothi,parthiban,pazuvettarayar all have a dream.All have a vision and come up fighting in their lives.
But maybe our women really lived like that in those days.Maybe kalki portrayed the male dominant society as it existed then.
I was reading udayar by balakumaran.He says that in chola empire women worked as 'adikarachis' and even as guards.Kalki did not say that.
I went to projectmadurai.com yesterday just to check if there are any new files, and realized a funny mistake I had made: When I had downloaded SS from the site a few months back, there was no part 4. I did not know there was a part 4, so after 3 parts, although the ending was slightly abrupt, the novel overall was amazing, with a tragic ending (not common in tamil lit.). Now I realize there is part 4, so I am going to read it today. Lets see if my impression of SS goes up or down:)
Dear All... Have been following the SS discussion (what did you expect? :-))) with great interest. My two cents... >>>>I don't see Sivagami as an "egoist". I think of her as a girl with spunk, with individuality, with some attitude and oomph. Maybe traditionally Indian girls are not supposed to be like that. But I prefer Sivagami to a Vanathi from PS.. all suppliant and coy.. *ugh* made me want to puke :p >>>>>>>> Coy...! Arun, I agree with you there. Oh, no offence, Vanathi is a nice girl and all that - but I'm afraid as the consort of Arulmozhi, she isn't an ideal heroine (I even remember feeling vaguely angry when Arulmozhi finally confessed his 'love' for her, at the end - I felt kind of betrayed. Arulmozhi...with this faint-heart!! Gah. Of course, I forced myself into liking her, later. :-)). But then, therein, I think, lies Kalki's superb sense of proportion - he was well aware of how actual princesses of that era behaved, and the tiny roles queens (the traditional ones, not people like Princess Kundavai, who were very original in their views) - had to play, in the running of Empires...which is why, I think, he portrayed Vanathi as the 'right girl'. Arulmozhi was not an ordinary prince, he would one day establish an Empire - and to do that, he ought to have a docile, demure girl who performs her duty well. (Can you see Poonghuzhali doing that? Like holding a tempest in a tea-cup :-) I really like the girl...now *there's* heroine material for you :-) That's what I like about Kalki - he's mostly realistic. Now, to get back to Sivakami - a heroine, I'll admit, who has evoked rather mixed reactions in me:
>>>>>1.Sivakaami's words and deeds hurt Maamallaa many a times.>>>> I think *all* heroines in love are capable of treating their beloved this way. Sivakami hurts him - because she's too much in love with him, and makes the classic error of wanting most of his attention to herself. She's too young, leads a secluded life tucked away in a forest, has practically no friends, and lives in a fantasy world created by herself, with only a parrot and a deer for company - and frankly, has too much time on her hands with little to do but weave fantasies about herself and Maamallar. She's madly in love with him, and when her fantasy world and reality colide, is left confused, irritated, worried, and angry. Our normal heroines are guilty of this - why not Sivakami, who's a sensitive soul? >>>>>2. Kalki himself could not resist describing the discomfort felt by Maamalla by Sivakaami's behaviour.>>>>>>>> True. Maamallar feels discomfort - because he too is young, and inexperienced, he's what...18, 20, in the first paagam? Way too young to know a woman's heart. At that age, one is mostly aware of physical beauty - and though Kalki has portrayed them as two people who genuinely fall for each other because of their qualities, he also makes it clear that they find each other very attractive. Maamallar was a Prince, his duty was defined to him - and he had very little interaction with other young ladies his age - in all probability, he had absolutely no idea of what Sivakami truly felt. He tried to console her, and rest her fears...but he didn't really understand her deep-seated fear that he might not marry her. To him, her source of discomfort was not obvious. *He* was sure that he would marry her- an event which did not happen, eventually. She was justified, don't you think? Added to that, Sivakami was rather temperamental in her ways...all creative people are this way, to a certain extent. Maamallar, himself a fairly matter-of-fact person, did not understand this very much, I think.
>>>3.Sivakaami is a heroine having some elements of Nilaambari.>>>>> :-)) I expect the stubbornness of her might give that impression. Not really. Sivakami was a typical woman, but none of her rages extended towards actively bringing down that which she could not have. She spent hours worrying about whether she would ever marry Maamallar - even though he was in love with her, she was aware of the practical impossibilties of the situation. The fact that Mahendra Pallavar opposed the match. And who could go against the Emperor? Not even Maamallar would. All her raves and rants were a result of this insecurity - but it did not go beyond that. She was torn apart by emotions, but she could not take fate in her hands and *force* a conclusion.
>>>>1.Sivakaami wanted a mommoth war to break out and the war to be led by Maamalla. This is not entirely bcas of patriotism .>>>> Umm...does she? Want a war, ie? I doubt if she was sure of anything, at that point. As I said in the above para, she was angry and worried - and she spoke a few words too many. The war would break out regardless of what *she* wanted ...all she really wanted was proof that Maamallar loved her. In truth, she is horrified about the after-effects of it. In her heart of hearts, she is aware that the war is not about her...though she would like to believe it is. *That* was truly the root of the problem. Ultimately, in the huge war machinery, she's merely a rather useless...spare-part?
>>>>3.Sivakaami, at one time or other, creates problems for the main characters - Maamallaa, Mahendraa, Paranjothi and Aayanar.>>>> If she didn't, then she would be as washed-out a character as Vanathi. :-)) She's talented, this woman - she's creative, she'a fantastic dancer, and she has the power to draw crowds in. All the main characters respect her, love her, esteem her according to their stations. They cannot help doing so - for, she's a woman who cannot be ignored. Sivakami is the classic epic heroine - a whirlwind who torments herself first and foremost, and others in only a smaller measure. She creates problems...? But she isn't the originator of those problems. To Paranjyothi and Mahendra, she's the unresolved factor in a war - though they like her very much and are afraid of causing her harm, ultimately she's an object that has to kept safe. They are both concerned - which they would be, even if she wasn't the lover of Mamaa
Wow Pavithra... I think you covered pretty much everything that I wanted to say but didnt have the time to type out. I agree completely. Sivakami is a fantastic character because of the fact that she has all these contradictions that natural, normal people have. She is not a poonguzhali who can sacrifice her love or a Vanathi who is insipid and coy and in love. This lady is her own woman. She knows her mind.. at least she thinks so. ALl she wants is to marry Maamallan... she couldnt care two hoots about the empire... She is also young and vain and foolish .. but again in love. Normal people all behave like this.. and the genius of Kalki brought out all these different facets.
Although I have one slight quibble with Pavithra. She says that Maamallan was too young to understnad the way a woman;s mind works. I want to ask her: Is there any age where a man can claim to understand a womanś mind? :-D
--- In ponniyinselvan@yahoogroups.com, "Sivapathasekaran" > PS. Sivakami's pride - ego everything riverberating because of her > being an Artist .. Poonguzhali .. a Vagabond - Nightingale .. Oh .. > wonderful characterisation ...
adi aaththee... Poonguzhali-nnaa 'vagabond'. idhey oru payyan ippadi irundhaa yella appavum 'tharudhalai'-nu thittaraanga. :-((
Moreover, reNdu pErukkumE ammA kidiayAthu, petted by father. Both love a prince and don't unite with them. Both have temper tantrums and are a little unpredictable.
AnAlum enakku PK-vai vida sivagAmi thAn romba obstinate-nu thONuthu. Though PK is a difficult person to predict she has more understanding of her surroundings than sivagAmi.
I think kalki put lots of scenes like Sivagami refusing to go with Mamallar and Paranjothi just to add weight to the blazing of Vathapi in the end.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > But there is enough inscriptional materials avaiable to establish that > atleast during Chozhas' Rule, Women were enjoying very good social status > and were active in Panchayats / Buerocracy.. Film Rajarajan speeks of even > > Women spies .. > > There is some consolidated study on this .. shall try to post ..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm looking forward to reading it, too. :-)
Peeppil laike me who no no inglees, thanglish mails righting okay no? I think thanglish reeding difficult mainly bekaas of switching of words in a sentence of the paragraph of the message of the mail. If aal lower case lattars following, easy reading there is eligible; capital lattars in between brain difficult there switching between capital and sumaal lattars.
This nice mail is brought to you in reference to yuvar nice mail message I reed just.
Good thread on the characters. I too sympathized Sivakari for the hardships she faced in Vathapi..but theethum nandrum pirar thara vaaraa..In our culture its generally said that we should listent to elders words and should not question or argue with them, even if their words mean nothing. But todays generation do not follow this, thats a different issue. 1400 years back also, it seems, a few were like this generation people, not listening to elders.
Mahendrar clearly instructed Aayanar and Sivakami not to leave kanchi during the war. But, ketangala avanga, mahendrar pechai (Krupa junoon nyabagam varudha..). It was Sivakami, who insisted or rather provoked her father to leave Kanchi through the surangam. And she paid for not obeying Mahendrars words. For this, do Sivakami, really deserves the sympathy we all have for her?
(So, the moral of the story is, never go against elders words ...hehehe.. how is it?)
Ok Satish :) I HAVE to put my tuppence worth here. I understand the concept of being respectful towards elders but it is precisely this policy of NOT questioning our elders/seniors that led to the "dark ages" in our country. Human Knowledge does not grow unless you question. Heck Nachiketa even questioned Yama.. so keen was he to learn. And Murugan taught Siva about Om.. so I do not really support this policy of unhesitatingly taking in everything the elders/seniors/teachers say. First listen.. then question.. then when you are fully satisfied yourself , accept it. I think Lord Krishnan himself says something of that sort in the Geeta :-)