I read somewhere that they alsozamin ( Possibly Sivagangai Zamin?) who got respect like Pandia King among other Zamins. But I could not recollect the source.
Dear, It is excellent pieace of research information. I request SPS and other learned members of this hon'ble forum to make some arrangment to meet the present chola king at chennai. He may provide more information
It was an interesting interview, but the skeptic in me is wondering unless we have genetic confirmation, its rather premature to accept that the particular zamin is actually a living descendant which they do not offer any proof other than state their customs and allege that it was similar to the Chola coronation.Sri
If I can stop one heart from breaking,I shall not live in vain; If I can ease one life the aching,Or cool one pain, Or help one fainting robin, Into his nest again, I shall not live in vain. Emily Dickinson To: ponniyinselvan@yahoogroups.com
Genetic confirmation is a good idea, if at all we are able to trace/ extract any DNA
The following are the facts I can extract from various sources and no way I am making any conclusion. These have to be analysed further to make any meaningfulinterpretation:
1. Immediate reference on this Zamin is available on the following 2 accounts a.An inscription available in Kuttiyandavar Koil in Pitharpuram (Pichavaram), in the year 1583 BC, mentions a Palayathar by name “Vittalesura Cholagonar”. The inscription reads as follows (Ref:Chola Vendhar Paramparai- Vanniya Palayakkarar Varalaru) ……………………………………………. …………………………. Berammaya Pillai Kattalikku Vittelesura Chola gnar ma Nuzhanmargal munnilayaga
b.Salem & Vaidheeswaran Koil copper plates mention “ Thondai Mandala Cholaganar” . The period of these copper plates is 1595 BC (Source:“Thirukkai Valam” Book by Koodal Managar Iruvatchi Pulavar) These Zamin had intersting relation with Udayarpalayam Zamins (look for earlier mails on Udayarpalayam Zamins)
2. Going further and searching for Cholaganar brings the following (though everyone is aware, just to relate the facts 1279 CE is the last available year for Cholas). a. During Kopperunchinga (the Kadava kings), period, there are numerous inscriptions available at both Vridhacahalam and Chidambaram temples, where Cholaganar were his top official. b. They were initially at Vridhacahalam and later positioned at Chidambaram. c. The cholaganar that we hear are Senkanivayan cholagan and (his son probably Perumal pillai cholagan). The years: 1230s-1240s d. Most interstingly, the Senkanivayan Cholagan hailed from "Arasur" which is identified by a town near Thirukkoiyulur. Thirukkoyilur , all of knew, how it is related to Rajraja I e.For References, please go through SII reg Chidambaram and Vridhachalam. Between early 13th century and the 16th century, I am not aware of any references to them, and may be interpreted as them continuing as powerful local chieftains.
So, Apart from current evidences provided by them,
We need to verify 1. Origin of Senkanivayan Cholaganar from Arasur and any relation to erstwhile Chola family 2. Is the cholaganar under Kopperunchingas the same that we hear again in early 16th Centurty? 3. More interestingly, the title Cholagonar/Cholaganar/ Cholanar, how it is related with Chola? (only available earlier evidence, atleast to me,
May be, learned members can throw more information.
The problem is, we have not found any tomb of the Chola kings with their bodily remains. Most of them were cremated. Even if their ashes or burnt bone fragments were to be found in tombs,they may not carry any meaningful DNA. I doubt whether there are any paintings of the chola kings or life size statues with actual facial features ( VJ - please comment! ) with which we can try to match the faces of the current generation. But even that couldnt help.. Both the generations are 1000 years apart!
We could possibly do a DNA study of the current zamins and establish their relations... I doubt this could ever happen, unless otherwise a government agency or a bigger company could sponsor this research.
The only proof is the evidence they were crowned for the past 100 years or so. We have to dig back and find whether they have any other evidence - jewels, palm leaves, copper plates or any thing in their possession which could be dated using scientific means. We could also establish their lineage if a series of inscriptions bearing their last name could be traced out...
I believe that it is possible to find the lineage, but a tedious and authenticated research needed on this part( One cautious note: This Pichavaram Chola descendant must be a Chalukya Chola descendant who came in the lineage of Kulothunga Cholan). Although the DNA part is interesting one, the source of the DNA is a problem. I have attached the possiblepictures of Rajaraja Cholan.If any of the member could convert this as a real time photo ( Rajaraja's face only ) with normal hair style would be appreciated. I don't have another painting picture in which Rajaraja Chola (with moustache and beard) standingwith three queens, if any of the member is having that pl. postit also.
As I have stated earlier in the forum, their presence has been recorded in the telugu works of Tanjore and Gingee Nayaks namely Raghunadhabyudayam and Sahitya Ratnakara and the letters of Jesuit father Pimenta from the 15th century. (Attaching the pages from the book, "History of Gingee")
Also, Al beruni in his book, records the destruction of important forts in tamil nadu by the invading mohammedan forces. It is mentioned that certain "Jalkottah" near GKC was also attacked. The author believes it must be this "Devikottai" or "Theevukottai" as it was originally called.
(On a separate note, vanniyar folklore mentions the ill fate of 'Padayandavars' (observe the title of the last person who spoke in the documentary) who had to abandon their original homeland, which was an islet (island) in the northern part of kollidam (called Jayamkondapattinam in the song). This was a part of a melancholy song (must be a lullaby sort-of).
Almost all the books about the Vijayanagar dynasty mention some amount of detail about them. Raghunatha Nayak (not sure about the name) was supposed to have a picture of him capturing this solaga in his palace at Tanjore!
The objects shown (pagal thevetti, sword and the lance) could be dated. but there are chances that they were made after 16th century.
"they do not > > offer any proof other than state their customs and allege that it was > > similar to the Chola coronation." The panel drawing in the chidambaram nataraja temple shown at the end of the documentary shows sage Vyakrapadar and Patanjali giving the tiger flag to the chola monarch. Observe the similarity of that flag with the one which is in custody of the present generation.
Rajaraja's face resemblance may not be much successful as you have rightly pointed out that they may of the chola-chalukya branch. Historically there were many branches of chola, pandyas. So genetic mapping (to find out the similarities or genetic affinities) of the royal houses of Tamil Nadu (erstwhile polegars) can help to a certain extent!
Anyways, there is more research needed, specifically reading inscriptions of lesser known temples, the ones issued by the local chieftains of that region (Kadavarayars - Kachirayars, Sambuvarayars etc) and especially the inscriptions in "Devikottai" remanants.. if there is any; carefully examining the contemprary literatures of 13-15 centuries (of later pandyas and the telugu works of gingee and tanjore nayaks)
With Regards, Karthik.P.Kalingarayar
"To us all towns are one, all men our kin. Life's goodness comes not from others' gift, nor ill Man's pains and pains' relief are from within. Thus have we seen in visions of the wise !." - Tamil Poem in Purananuru, circa 500 B.C
No. 43 (A. R. No. 262 of 1904) Tiruchchanur, Chandragiri Taluk, Chittoor District On a Detached stone built into the floor at the entrance into the Padmavathi Amman temple. This record registers a gift of 30 kalanju of gold by Solanar Ulagaperumanar of Sola-nadu for burning a perpetual lamp before the god Tiruvilankoyil Perumanadigal set up in the temple of Tiruvengadattu-Perumanadigal at Tiruchchoginur in Kudavur-nadu, a subdivision of Tiruvengada-kottam, in the 51st year of Vijaya-Dantivikramavarman. Ulagaperumanar mentioned in the inscription was evidently a Chola chief ruling Sola-nadu under the overlordship of the Pallavas. A different Chola chief is mentioned in No. 49. No. 49 (C. P. No. 24 of1910-11) Velurpalaiyam Plates of Nandivarman III: 6th year. This copper-plate record issued in the 6th year of Nandivarman (III) registers a gift of the village Srikattuppalli, to the Siva temple built by Yajnabhatta, at the request of Chola-Maharaja Kumarankusa, for the expenses of daily worship and for a feeding house. This Chola-Maharaja and Vijayalaya, the founders of the revived Chola line at Tanjore are taken to have belonged to one and the same family. This is doubtful and he should probably have belonged to the family of Renandu Cholas. Published in South Indian Inscriptions, Vol. II, pp. 507-510.
There are 2 chola chieftains mentioned. One during Dandivarman period and other during nandivarman III. What is interesting is the use of "Solanar Ulagaperumanar of Sola-nadu" under Dandivarman.
Period of Dantivarman796–846 AD [1] Period of Nandivarman III846–869 AD [2] Period of Vijayalaya Chola 848-871 AD [3]
Solanar Ulagaperumanar gifted the perpetual lamp in the 51st year of Vijaya-Dantivikramavarman (846 AD).Vijayalaya Cholan’s earliest year of rule is consideredto be848 AD and nowhere in the later records he was mentioned as Ulagaperumanar. Vijayalaya's father name is Orriyuran. Orriyuran means Sivan [4]. Ulagaperumanar also could give the same meaning (Sivan). Solanar Ulagaperumanar might be the same Orriyuran, father of Vijayalaya Cholan.
Hi Shash, It is one of the option (Ulagaperumanar and Orriyuran are the same name based on the meaning). Both could be separate persons also.Since the timeinterval isless (846 AD& 848 AD), we cannotdeny the option of Vijayalaya Cholan. Although my favorite option is the first one (Ulagaperumanar and Orriyuran are the sameperson's name), we cannot finalise anything until we get enough proof.
Al-Beruni was a Persian Scholar, who was held a captive or slave by Gazini Mohammed. I have the book written by him. He did not mention any thing about Tamilnadu.