Chera, Chozha, Pandiya
  • I have often heard, when talking about tamil kingdoms or history, the three dynasties "Chera Chozha Pandiya". Why is the Pallava dynasty not mentioned? Are they not mentioned because of their Telugu/Andhra heritage? If yes, don't the Chera kings have a "Kerala" or "Mallayalam" heritage?
  • Dear
    How can you forget sivakamiyin selvan, which delas with pallava kingdom very vastly. It is not neglected. We are not having sufficinent evidences / documents and the history are not much clear as in the case of cholas. Researchers should take vast research in this area and brought out the correct history, which will definitely lead to creation of pallava historical novels.God taken Shastri from us before he make a detailed analysis in this area. God should allow Shastri should rebirth again in this land and complete the task
  • I have a personal opinion that it is because, the Chera, Chola and Pandiya Kingdoms have been in existence right from Sangam age. The Pallavas, when compared to the other three have been active only for a few hundred years. Of course, this is purely my personal opinion.
  • Kerala / malayalam ...branched out pretty late. Please refer to our
    discussions about ref to the moovendars in ashokan edicts
  • Hi,
    I remember asking the same some time back during my Pallava study. One of the
    reason I may quote is as there is no mention of the Pallavas in any of the
    Puranas (Ashtadasha Puranas) hence this dynasty was in obscure for some time.

    Also while going through James Fergusson (History of Indian and Eastern
    Architecture) I found that when the monuments of Mahabalipuram were discovered,
    nobody was aware of the Pallava dynasty at that time. I think Ashoka's Mysore
    inscription also does not talk about the Pallavas. Samudragupta in his Allahabad
    pillar inscription talks about the king of Kanchi but no mention about Pallava.
    These are few points from my side.

  • Who are thonadaimans?

    there are sangam works on them. Ilandirayan refered in sangam.

    AHiranyavarman refered in Chidambaram puranam as the one who renovated the temple . read somweher that he is a Pallava ( could not locate the article) The temple was gold tiled even in Appar's period.

    Lots of bit news but there is no structured news
  • dear shankar

    do you have thillai nataraja by Sri B Natarajan ( son of SRB) - he talks of
    the legends surrounding the origins of thillai. We find strong ref to
    Pallavas there
  • Quoting from H Krishna Sastri, Rao Saheb (1916). South Indian Images of Gods and
    Goddesses. Madras. Madras Government Press. for history of Chidambaram.
  • Saurabh,

    Appar sings in his hyms about the gold covered Chidambaram temple in his
    Thevaram. I posted this thevaram poem a few months back. Will trace it and
    post again.
    Appar is contemporary of Mahendra Pallava.

    Parantaka came much later. So its inferred that Chidambaram was gold plated
    even before Parantaka period.
  • there is a thirumanthirum also on the gold plating of chidambaram
  • Sorry for neglecting to get back on this....I was missing in action for few days :-))))

    No, I am not talking at the level of scholars, authors, academics or literature. My question pertains at the street or household level.
  • I am sorry for not participating in the discussions, having asked the question. It is quite unlike me :-) I was just busy and this slipped from my mind.

    I like to question pertains to not academics, scholars or authors; but what do saadarna kuddi magan or magal think.

    Maybe some movie popularized this trend. But before that, is my observation even right? I might be easily wrong.

    Again this is not about what experts think, it is what is prevalent in common person's mind.

    thanks, sorry for not being active.
  • Keralites speaking Malayalam would probably not like the tone or implication of malayalam branching out from Tamil. I remember way back I asked in this group about archaeological evidences of tamil within the current Kerala boundaries.

    agree is that there was a proto-dravidian language predating all the 4 major languages we have.
  • Thank you. You bring an interesting perspective from the Puranas perspective. It is quite likely that if some thing is not in Puranas, then there is less chance of it being handed down to the generation, unless non-Puranic traditions handed them down. What I mean by non-Puranic tradition is any literary or verbal vehicle that transmitted knowledge and wisdom. It could be folk tales, or village stories that did not get categorized as Puranams.

    Then the next big question, is why did the Pallavas not find mention in these.

    thanks again.
  • There are lot of Tamil inscriptions in Kerala.
  • Date: 13-1-2011

    Read my article coming under the following URL for more informations on - Tamil in Kerala from the earliest times.

    This article titled "The Great Significance of Kodungallur in the history of Kerala and Tamil Nadu" is appearing in this Website in four Parts.

  • Dear Sir,

    Thanks for the extensive coverage, which we will use for our future references.

    Sir, Thiruchengode was also part of Chera Country in Silambu.If you could elaborate that also , will be helpful.
  • Can you share the information?

  • I am yet to get the book. I will post once i get that. For Ramayanam i need to takeup kerala/( Chera country) once TN part is over.

    In the meantime Vira Rajendran article details the Tamil and Malayalam phase of Kerala.

    remember archieve having articles on Salai mahadevar temple inscription.
  • friends,
    pallavas ancestry is debatable. they started patronising tamil language only in the later periods. chidambaram temple history has kochengannan and he is assessed to be 450 AD.

    PALLAVAS also contributed to chidambaram but only after this. traditional "sangam tamilagam" means present day kerala,tamilnadu and northern srilanka.

    ironically pallavas have invaded srilanka nad there are their inscriptions and structures in the trincomalee fort( fort frederick). presently it is a military garrison.

    chera chozha pandya confederacy of tamilagam must have been well before 300BC. there are inscriptions about them in kalinga karavela dynasty and maurya asoka edicts.these are 400BC.

    rice transplantation in tamilnadu has been not known before 2000BC. it can be assumed that rice transplantation as a base fro calculating tamil history.

  • Date: 15-1-2011

    'Chengkoattu...' = Chengkuntram (Koadu = Kuntram = a hill), was situated closer to Neduverlkuntram near Kumily in the Idukki District of Kerala on the Kerala/Tamil Nadu border. This is confirmed by the reference in Silappathikaaram as follows.

    "....Mangala Madanthai Koattaththu 'aangu ann[-maiyil'] Chenkoattu uyar varai....."

    meaning: ".....the Managaladevi temple (at Neduverlkuntram also as per Silappathikaaram), "there closeby" the tall hill Chengkoadu...."

    Silappathikarem - by Ilango Adihal, chapter - Vaaththu kaathai - U.V. Saminatha Iyer Edition

    It should be noted the Chengkoadu referred above is not the Thiruchengkoadu situated on the east of present Erode, which is far out in north-west Tamil Nadu, and far out of the course of Vaikai river. Further the hillock village Vannaaththiparai at Kumily, could have been the Neduverlkuntram (where Kannaki met her death which was sacred to God Murugan (refered to as 'Neduvel NeduVerl' as per Silappathikaaram) at that time. It is here that we find the old ruins of Kannaki temple even today.

    The Poet Ilango Adihal has further confirmed same, 'as being interpreted by Kannaki herself' as follows in the Silappathikaaram.

    "......naan avanthan mahal 'Ven Velaan kuntril' vilaiyaattu yaan akalen....."

    Silappathikarem - by Ilango Adihal, chapter - Vaalththu kaathai - U.V. Saminatha Iyer Edition

    Trust the foregoing are of interest to you.

  • Dear Sir,

    Your article is very detailed. Thanks and regards
  • Dear Virarajendra

    Thanks for your detailed commentary and insightful remarks. I recall
    reading your research article(s) on Kannagi worship. Thanks so much.

    Raj Mutharasan
  • Dear,
    Can you inform where can i get more inforamtion about the inscription?

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