The very basic understanding of Budhisam is no God. The root cause of the decline of Bhudhism is – Bhudhism created a God – ie Bhudhism. Then the later acharyas like Nagrjuna developed many theories which are close to advaita. Then it was very easy for Hinduism to question Budhism. Please note that even when Jainism was at its peak in Tamilnadu, there were lot of temples and followers of Vedic Hinduism. Thevaram describes clearly.
Theertha Yatras: What about the theertha yatras of Arjuna and Balarama in Mahabhratha? Or for that matter the Vali’s sandyavandan on the 4 theerthas every day?
It is atrocious that to state that Brahmins ate cow. The cow was sacrificed as an offering. What was ate is just a sufari size ( Kottappakku size)
Chapter 2-
Name of the clan is Vishnu Kundin but the temple is not of Vishnu – superb We still have both Bhudhist, Jain and Hindu caves together in ellora – why that was not converted?
With regard to vivekannda’s comment – let me see the original to comment on.
Caste barriers are weak at Jagannath – In whole of North every one is allowed inside the temple to touch the lord.
Since the focus is only Tirupathi – I am skipping. But if Ayyappa is bhudhist – then Appar would not have sung “ Sathanai Mahanai Vaithar”
Srisailam - sung by Appar and sambandar – from kalahsthi . How can it be a Bhudhist center. The bhudhist center was at the other side – Sri parvada alias Nagarjuna Konda.
Right from Silappthigaram , Mudhal Azhwars, it was considered a Vishnu temple.
In mahabhalipuram we have all the forms. I have images of vishnus of east. All standing.
Till ramanuja’s time – the worship was done at Ilam Kovil because of the terrain.– the Boga srinivasa was brought down. He sent his own relative to Tirumala for regular worship.
Vaikasana Agama – The lord came first – Vaigasana came next to Tirumala. Periazhwar clearly states that the lord has both the attributes.
Why resembelence to Bodisatva – I once mentioned that he resembles Kanyakumari also.
The Sanga and Chakra were not integeral part of the moorti. Every one knows that Sri Ramanuja installed that.
Saivas and vasihnavas conspired together – Appadi Podu – Rajendra’s epigraph at Kapila Theertham – in which he checks the poojas at Tirumala – which our SPS sir once mentioned – is not read by the author.
The Tirumal epigraphs book mentions 4 inscriptions of Kulothunga 1
“None of the Early Alvars described the Murthi
The verses from which the hypothesis of Vyakta Vishnu Vyakta-avyakta Siva is formulated belong to the Early Alvars, i.e. Poygai, Pey and Bhuddatan. From the zest with which this hypothesis was put forward by Sri Sitapati and his followers, even in World Telugu conference, it would have given the impression to the masses, that these Alvars really described the murthi in such a way that it could be presumed to have features of both Siva and Vishnu. Unfortunately, for propagators of this hypothesis, it is not true, and their claim is based on false grounds. Sri Veera Raghavacharya observes:
"...None of the early Alvars has described even cursorily, the form and the features of the image, the divine ornaments depicted thereon and the divine weapons borne. We have to draw the inference that they attached little importance to these..." [Raghavacharya: II,1093, emphasis ours] “
It clearly shows that the author has not read the pasuram
> It is atrocious that to state that Brahmins ate cow. The cow > was sacrificed as an offering. What was ate is just a sufari size ( Kottappakku size)
I do not know why it becomes atrocious to conclude that. It is not wrong to eat meat; humans evolved over millions of years and have routinely eaten meat.
We should not project present day standards onto the past.
Hinduism never prohibited eating meat. It is clearly mentioned that Rama and Krishna ate meat.
But - The principle of Ahimsa - which is much older vedic concept - was kept as a rule for Brahmins and Cow was a sacred animal. Hinduism never insisted this rule for every one but kept as an ideal.
There are indeed stories of Rishis eating meat - Agasthya eating the Vatapi Goat.or Adisankara taking toddy as biksha.
If one agrees with the Evolutionary phases of human beings, then one would agree that humans ate meat.
Vedas are nothing but a compilation of thoughts, process and views in various times. Like "gravitational force" existed before Newton discovered the theory on gravitation, so it is possible that various thoughts existed before the compilation.
There must have been a period in India, when cows were not sacred animal.
Every process requires reformation. The soceity has also to be reformed.
Just killing animal for food is barbarian way. It has to be changed. It is possible to live with out meat or beef. You may tell the rice and wheat has life. But you have to see the stage. No rice or wheat never cry. But you see the goat when they were teken to killing place, it keeps silence unable to escape, could not do any thing. Defiitely they feel their killing andcrying.
It is not correct to take meat or beef, even if in olden days bramin took. It is not correct to adopt the barbarian practice as on date by telling bramins took in earlier days. It is also not correct to adopt since the forieners are taking. Othewise thereformation so far made in the society will go waste. It is necessary to tune the minds of thepeople by various adoptingsocial engineering methods to prevent the killling of animals.
You also seehuman characters will be depends upon whatthey are eating. The group of people who is not taking meetorbeefalways seems to be intelligent compare to the people who is normally taking meat etc.
The main reason for the intellecutal of the jewes, bramin or saiva pillai or saiva chettiar compare to other group is due to their food habits.It is necessary to all other communities who are taking meat etc should discontinue so that their efficiencycould improve.
Therefore it is totally incorrect to convert the saiva people by brain stroming that in the olden days bramin took meat.
Sir, The sutras or the guide books, even prescribed what meat to offer the Brahmin priest for each occasion. In fact the fat content (or more exotic) of the meat determined the periodicity of the yagna being redone. If one where to offer Rhino meat, then one could do Shardham for their ancestors once in 12 years. Meat with lesser fat than Rhino, like cow, goat meant the event was to be repeated sooner. If one where to just stick to rice and vegetables as offerings to the brahmins, then they would have to do it yearly.
Even today, if one cares to observe the yagna's being done, most of the offerings - thrown into the sacred fire and those given as gifts to the brahmins are forms of animals. Now they have replaced valuable metals instead of meat. There should not even be an iota of doubt that the vedic and Brahminical religion where the religion of the meat eaters.
In mychildhood, I was informed tirupati ka balaji is only subramania. They hard core saivists informed that vainavisht put namam on the shirne and saivists too. They are having supporting views that only lord subramania will be in the hills and hence it is shrine of subramania only.
Since it is subramania i got more faithful and sincereity to him.
Like me, let the buddist people may also be more affection to him. Afterall he is god. He will digest all such poision like Neela kanda.
It is all so nice read experts observations and opinions here, I am greatful to be a part of this readership, as I cannot write anything, for lack of indepth of knowledge of life and happenings leave apart academic material, I am a novice all the way, can you suggest how and where I can meet you all when I am in chennai for a week 10 days during last part of Jan 2011, I will consider that happening a blessin,g on my long travels.
I am replying as you addressed your post to me :-)
We are talking historical perspective here. Talking about something of the past does not condone or condemn the activities. I am neither advocating meat eating nor against it.
I belong to one of the communities you list there and do not eat meat myself. While I agree what we eat makes a great impact on what we are; I disagree meat eating reduces intellectual ability. Jews in your list eat meat. Some of the prowess is because of the inbreeding within a community; the gene pool is controlled. The kind of work one did over thousand years made impact on behavior and brain.
- We come across carnivorous people care for animals as may be seen from discovery channel/animal planet or the day to day life of people eating meat!
It is also strange that such people do not have family values and tend to live of their own - separated from wife/husband and children !
- Most of the inventions have taken place only in the carnivorous land !
- Even today carnivorous people do daredevil acts in exploring the volcano or the deep oceans or scale dangerous mountains or unexplored lands !
- One more thing - if you don't fish or hunt - the entire sea and forest population will be sprawling in all the major cities/towns with no place for vegetarians to live ! There can be no life and time to discuss these issues in website !
- All the above go to establish that "selfishness" is absent in carnivorous people
It is nothingbut sacrifice only !
- In the herbivorous land it is totally organised, civilized way of life, and selfishness to the core ?
- Who is better and needed for the society - judge yourself !
I am not sure why we are discussing eating meat and even that Tirumala temple was a Subrmani swamy temple. I thought we will discuss if Hindus forcibly converted other Indic temples to Hindu ones :-))
1) Family values: It is relative; what one culture deems as values does not have to be the same for another culture. In a culture individualism might be placed above family values.
2) It does not beehove upon us to categorize which set of people are selfless or selfish. All humans have both feelings in varying amounts, based on the circumstances.