Thirukkurungudi perumal is of sudai and also painted in multi colour.
The Thiruananthapuram perumal was originally of wood . It was destroyed in fire ( 400 - 500 years back) Then the TVM king requested Nepal king to send salgrama and around 2000 salgramas and solidified with sudai and sugarcane juise and Ananta padmanaba swamy was made.
I think Thiruvvaturu swamy also wood.
Kanchi, Thiruvarur, Thiruvotriyur, Thirukkarugavur, Thakkolam, lingams are all solidified sand ( or Puttu). legend says Rameswaram also manal lingam but abhishekam is done for it.
There was one idol made of pure maragadam in thiru engoi malai which was stolen about 10 years back. very big. During harathi the light would reflect. I had a darshan 2 months before it was stolen.
There is another big Maragada lingamin one temple but will not sharethat info.
The Utrakosa mangai natrajar is again maragadam ( emerald)
The thiruvadanai lingam is of blue saphire.
Palani andavar, thiruchengode arda naresswara/sengotu velavan, senni malai andavar are nava bashanam
> > There was one idol made of pure maragadam in thiru engoi malai which was stolen about 10 years back. very big. During harathi the light would reflect. I had a darshan 2 months before it was stolen. > > There is another big Maragada lingamin one temple but will not sharethat info.
Hi do we have a word for jade in tamil or is maragatham a common word for both emerald and jade i happened to see one maragatha lingam in a temple in very close quarters and it seemed to be exceedingly translucent jade
venketesh
> > The Utrakosa mangai natrajar is again maragadam ( emerald) > > The thiruvadanai lingam is of blue saphire. > > Palani andavar, thiruchengode arda naresswara/sengotu velavan, senni malai andavar are nava bashanam > > regards > > sankar > > >
dear venkat the palani malai moolaver is navapashanam but i still not heared the other murugha temple is in navapashanam. the natrajar of uthirakosamangai and a very big lingam at near tiruchi is also in maragatham and even meenakshi of madurai is also maragtham i have seen the uthirakosaamangai natrajar, the lingam of near tiruchi the harthi time the reflecting is a great one an alone fire is circling we see on the lingam and on the chest of the natrajar, and it is a rememberable experience, i have to tank to god to arranged me to see it. thank you
dear abhivencat, i seen this unday in suntv that the very near 18km from thirukoviloor a vishnu temple rangantha laying in 30feet size and i forgotten the name of the town.
dear abhivencat have u seen the very big natraja near 25km at kumbakonam which is 7.5 feet hight and the godess sivakami is 4feet and every amavassi time only one hair raising in the armpit and it fell down in powrnami i seen it in the middle ok
fire Thiruvannamalai Water - Thiruvanaikka Air - Kalahasthi Space - Chidambaram (bigtemple / thanjai) - PRITHVI @ SOIL @ PUTRU Sthalams are ::
1. Thiruvarur 2. Thiruvotriyur (check for the similarities between these two temples ! amazing:
3. Ekambareswarar (Kanchi)
apart from Thiruvarur / thiruvotriyur being PRITHVI sthalams -
Sundara's one wife (Pravai) was in Thiruvarur/ another in Thiruvotriyur (Sangiliar)...
Dr. Kudavoil Balu Sir described ::
In the big temple painting on Cheramaperumal - when Sundara reached the Mt Kailash over the white elephant - followed by Cheramanperumal's horse catching the tail of the elephant - two DEVAKANYAs were receiving them ... none other than PARAVAI & SANGILIAR
Ranganathar is not sudai. Some acharya's believe Tirupathi Perumal & Ranganathar is also said to be salagrama (ammonite). Some are swaymbu in the rupa which are 'edited' to meet the 3 types of postures.
Sudai usually gives excellent medicinal value, old saying of Abhishekam on idol and consume that milk to alleviate problems primarily related to health (Works only on Sudai, dont even try on regular stones ;) even if gradma's push you).
Sudai - BEST example - Thiruvallur Veeraraghava perumal. Fantastic build of Sudai.
I suspect Thiruthani murugan to be of Sudai also, but then the timeline is questionable.
Usually many murugan idols are formed of Sudai, as the lord of Kurinji, which is the primary abode of many many herbs / roots and medicinal twines, which form the core of Sudai architecture. Many places they say Paal abhishekam for Muruga, one reason is the medicinal value in drinking that milk. We all know Navapashana and its effects so I am not delving there.
Maragadam is Jade (at least for murugan idols) yet to see an emerald in that connection. Jade has very deep rooted mystical value in Chinese history and considering Bogar's resume and many many thiruppugazh songs of maragatha mayils etc, most of them are in Dark Greenish color.
Silpa sasthram is a massive subject, it is not just of considering stones and carving them, it has tons of dimensional designs etc. I am no expert but have been reading it with curiosity.
Can write more but it would question some core beliefs of people.
> In the big temple painting on Cheramaperumal - when Sundara reached > the Mt Kailash over the white elephant - followed by > Cheramanperumal's horse catching the tail of the elephant - two > DEVAKANYAs were receiving them ... none other than PARAVAI & > SANGILIAR
Aaruraar friend sought the company of Cheran of Kongu and he reached the Kailai. While Aarurar was waited outside, Cheraman sings Aadhi Ula about Lord Kailai natha and is let inside even before (munalinil) Aarurar.
Siravapuri Murgan is made of green stone. ( the original idol mistaken as damaged and kept in prakaram. The murugan and Mayil are green granite. My Grand father built a temple for Bhuvaneswari at villupuram with a similar stone.
Involved with Siruvapuri for a long time. had an oppertunity to touch the idol ( since considered broken and kept outsode. Paramacharya chidded the villagers saying the statue is infact made in 3 parts and joined. - Would like to clarify that i know paramacharya by his close followers. I had darshan of him when i was very very young. When i moved to chennai and had frequent darshan, he stopped talking. It was darshan from long distance. Once he nodded his head when some body told about our family.That is it. When ever i mention Paramacharya, it is the information gathered )
That is where Srirangam ranganatha stayed. But Araikandanallur is on the other side of Pennar- Araiyani nallur. This i read some where near sengi. ( sengi/ TKlr are nearby only)
Police were busy in arresting ............................. Media also was busy in writing stories. ( Those stories are future history. Our Great grand children in this forum will download and show those articles as proof)
Thanks this govt for atleast inding the smaller one.
At that time, Thirukkaravasal and one more lingam also was lost.
Sir,someone told meTHIRUVALLIYANGUDI Valvilramar[in sayana kolam] is also made of sudai, but no abhishegams, only thailakappu or punuku sattam is applied,How abhiskegams are done in some temples!!??Is there diffrenet type of Sudais??, Thiruloki perumal is alsomade of sudai!, Vanamutti perumal is made of Athi tree!!
For such perumals, the thailakkapuu - Oil with addition like camphor ( request some one to elobarate, dont know about the ingridents) - done on Karthigai 1. The idols then will not be for public darshan, only face will be visible - and will be like that till just before vaikunda ekadasi.
The Thirumogur , Thiruvidantai perumals also sudai.
The abishekam in these temple onlyfor utsavar. ( Perumal thirumanjanam in any temple is only on Friday, Amavasya and Thiruvonam and some spl days. Alangarapriyan)
ok ok every body to this opening new year have you all seen the grahanam of nilaa at that time the ulakkai will stand straightly another time it will not stand straightly i saw standing of ulakkai
dear ravi not cheraman catched the tail of the white elephat. he sitting on a horse and spoken in the ear of the horse the word namasivaayaa then at once the horse flied
Not sure about this theory. I quoted from thirupugazh. Bard stories/songs have a flavor of poet's liberty. The himalayan trip on horse elephant back etc is more logical than physical. Its a concept not an action.
Thuruppugazh also says cheraman went in a horse and reached first and completed singing kailai gyana ula. Avvayar was even faster and waiting for them.
Early structural temples mostly had Sudai sculptures. Even in rock cut temples, the idols where painted and were colorful. Like Utsavamurthis, there were Abhisheka Murthis to which abhishekam (ritual bath) was done, these were predominantly metal or alloys. The practice of abhishekam to Moolavar and having them oiled was a later practice, (much later than Ellora, Kanchi Kailasanatha, Vaikunda Perumal Kovil)
The shiva temples are having lingams. Right from the oldest Gudimallam to the various siva temples ( can i say minimum 500 - Thevara + vaipu thalangals of appar and sambandar, excluding the 25 exclusive sundarar thalangal) in Mahendra pallava time, though of wooden /mud temples, had a lingams which are still continued to be worshiped. They defenetly had abishegams. ( Nittamaum neer sumandu)
The perumal temples should be mostly of sudai and wood. - hence sivan abishegappriyan and vishnu alangarappriyan.
But i myself could not sustain this vishnu theory because Thirumalaiyan is sila and sung by mudal alwars.
hence feel that we could not generalise. What we can say is Siva was predominantly stone and abishegam must have been there.
Hi, I quote here from Gopinatha Rao. "The images in the Central Shrines, the Dhurvaberas, whether made of stone or mortar are in these days covered with oil and made to look black. At what period in the history of image worship this practice of smearing the images with oil came into existence, it is difficult to say; but there is not the slightest doubt that it is comparatively a recent practice. The dhurvaperas the kautukaberas and the ustsava beras are, according to the Agamas not to be bathed in water. For this purpose of offering the bath the Snapana bera is particularly intended; and the bathings are prescribed in the Agamas to these images alone."
The point to note is that there are lingams which are not made of stone, some of wood (many temples in malabar coast), some of Putthu man (Solaivana nathar, Thirkarkavur), some sand (Prthvi lingam, Ekabareswarar temple, Kanchi) are some examples. Even when they where made of Granite, the walls surrounding them had either frescos or stuccos. This should have made it difficult for them to use water. The changes to the walls with sculpted figures or having plain walls is when this should have got enabled.
I say we need to explore further. Even for all those Puthu, sand lingams, the abishegams are performed to the avudaiyars. ( or to the lingam itself by covering it. "Kuvalai sathi abishegam)
Hence , need to serach in detail. ( we beed to search the padigams. ) Both the far and against theories are yet to be backed with proof.
Dear Members The miracles about the materials of idols include the Lingam at Thiru Nallur where the Lingam turns his colour 5 times a day. And the stones Suryakanthakal and Chandrakanthakal in the Viman of Thittai near Thanjai are also miracles. They collect moisture from atmosphere and a drop of water falls on Lingam every 24 minutes (every one Nazhigai). (if these are already included in miracles' list, please ignore this info.)
Thiruvirkolam/Koovam temple lingam also have some features like this, before it rains white color formation will develop on the lingam and during wat red color will develop!!!
Early Pallava caves did not have a provision ( grove) for the sacrificial water to drain out of the garba graha. While it doesnt rule out abishegam - they could have collected it in a small receptacle - but is food for thought. Further for identification purposes pallava caves had lingams that were defn of different stone than bed rock, when compared to pandya - which were cut into the same bed rock. it could not be technology - for in malaiyadipatti shiva cave, the nandhi - spectacular - incl nandhi peedam is cut into base rock, while the lingam is diff stone. incidentally the cave has an elborate provision for draining the abhisegam water - but was it cut later !!
will try to catch up with work and develop the above as a detailed post with supporting images shortly