> What about the sangam periods. came to hear that they > were three sangam periods any information as to the > periods of each sangam and the place at which each > were held? someone told me it was at madurai and a > place called kabaadapuram.. is it true???
Yep, the three sangams existed all right - and its mentioned in our ancient Thamizh literature that the sangam period consisted of 9990 years totally. That's not been agreed upon by todays's historians, I believe. Today, it's agreed that the Sangam period was somewhere around 300 BC to 200 AD. I think.
Yeah, the first sangam was convened at Then-Madurai- *not* todays' Madurai. Then-Madurai apparently was situated even more down south from today's Madurai. AfterThen-Madurai was lost to the sea, the second sangam was convened at Kabadapuram. This capital was destroyed by the sea too. The third sangam was the one established in today's *modern* Madurai.:-)
There's a bit about the Sangam history in the Project Madurai site - written by our own Dr. Jaybee. According to this, what we have now is actually the naangam sangam :-) (after the mudhal, idai and kadai sangams).
> Yep, the three sangams existed all right - and its mentioned in our > ancient Thamizh literature that the sangam period consisted of 9990 > years totally.
This is mentioned in a post sangam book called "Kalavazhi naarpadhu". It is not a very reliable source - many things have been Exaggerated.
> This is mentioned in a post sangam book called "Kalavazhi naarpadhu". > It is not a very reliable source - many things have been Exaggerated.
I know...far from it. The first reference to the Sangam ages occurs in the introduction to the commentary on "Iraiyanaar's Agaporul" (c.AD 650)- that's where the 9990 years mention comes in.
Modern historians have agreed that the sangam age existed in the early centuries of the christian era, though. :-)
The culture portrayed in sangam literature almost gets completely vanished during the rise of pallava regime. Is the 200 years of kalabhras enough to transform a society to such an extent ?
Also, the sangam compilation should have been done at a slightly later date - so poems were not immediately included into agam or puram as soon as they were compiled. It should have stayed in singer's mouths (paanan, virali etc) before being recorded.
As you have said, it should be during last 200 - 300 years before christ and 300 years after christ.
What surprises me is the thoughts expressed by that tamil society - apart from thirukkural, even agam and puram record great thoughts. Kaniyan poongundran's no (Yadhum voore) a classic example.
Karthik, Thanks for the genology of the Later Pandian Kings...
Latha, i will find out the details in the link that you have given me and get back...
Pavithra,gokul and others theplaces mentioned (*not* madurai and kabadapuram) were eroded by the sea just like our Cauveri Poom pattinam????? and you mean those places were submerged in sea long back???? even before silappadhikaaram???? coz i heard that ilangovadigal mentions " vadavengadam thenkumari aayidai tamizh koorum nallulagam".. if that is the case.. the erosion should have taken place very long back.. am i right???? and the telugu speaking people should have come before silpadhikaaram period.. any idea as to when telugu evolved?
another questions which pops into my mind is that people talk of having names in tamil and there are dirty translations of their names by some of our current day politicians..
then why is it all the names of the kings are in sanskrit and none of them have tamil names?? viz.. rajraja, rajendra, jatavarman,maravaramn, Narasimhavarma pallavan, rajasimha pallavan,mahendravarma pallavan to mention a few...
means tamil lost its glory after 5th century AD? but only after that shaivam and vaishnavam gained prominence due to the bhakti cult by the nayanmaars and aazhwars.... are things not confusing..? and the convention of having names in tamil like, karikaal chozhan, kanaikkal irumporai, killi valavan and all existed in early tamil kingdom and ceased to exist after the kalabhirars?
the question that will 200 years of kalabhirar's rule cchange the culture seems to have an answer in the affirmative...
scholars, pandits and historians any answers to the names part of this mail.
Karthik, Thanks for the genology of the Later Pandian Kings...
Latha, i will find out the details in the link that you have given me and get back...
Pavithra,gokul and others theplaces mentioned (*not* madurai and kabadapuram) were eroded by the sea just like our Cauveri Poom pattinam????? and you mean those places were submerged in sea long back???? even before silappadhikaaram???? coz i heard that ilangovadigal mentions " vadavengadam thenkumari aayidai tamizh koorum nallulagam".. if that is the case.. the erosion should have taken place very long back.. am i right???? and the telugu speaking people should have come before silpadhikaaram period.. any idea as to when telugu evolved?
another questions which pops into my mind is that people talk of having names in tamil and there are dirty translations of their names by some of our current day politicians..
then why is it all the names of the kings are in sanskrit and none of them have tamil names?? viz.. rajraja, rajendra, jatavarman,maravaramn, Narasimhavarma pallavan, rajasimha pallavan,mahendravarma pallavan to mention a few...
means tamil lost its glory after 5th century AD? but only after that shaivam and vaishnavam gained prominence due to the bhakti cult by the nayanmaars and aazhwars.... are things not confusing..? and the convention of having names in tamil like, karikaal chozhan, kanaikkal irumporai, killi valavan and all existed in early tamil kingdom and ceased to exist after the kalabhirars?
the question that will 200 years of kalabhirar's rule cchange the culture seems to have an answer in the affirmative...
scholars, pandits and historians any answers to the names part of this mail.
Karthik, Thanks for the genology of the Later Pandian Kings...
Latha, i will find out the details in the link that you have given me and get back...
Pavithra,gokul and others theplaces mentioned (*not* madurai and kabadapuram) were eroded by the sea just like our Cauveri Poom pattinam????? and you mean those places were submerged in sea long back???? even before silappadhikaaram???? coz i heard that ilangovadigal mentions " vadavengadam thenkumari aayidai tamizh koorum nallulagam".. if that is the case.. the erosion should have taken place very long back.. am i right???? and the telugu speaking people should have come before silpadhikaaram period.. any idea as to when telugu evolved?
another questions which pops into my mind is that people talk of having names in tamil and there are dirty translations of their names by some of our current day politicians..
then why is it all the names of the kings are in sanskrit and none of them have tamil names?? viz.. rajraja, rajendra, jatavarman,maravaramn, Narasimhavarma pallavan, rajasimha pallavan,mahendravarma pallavan to mention a few...
means tamil lost its glory after 5th century AD? but only after that shaivam and vaishnavam gained prominence due to the bhakti cult by the nayanmaars and aazhwars.... are things not confusing..? and the convention of having names in tamil like, karikaal chozhan, kanaikkal irumporai, killi valavan and all existed in early tamil kingdom and ceased to exist after the kalabhirars?
the question that will 200 years of kalabhirar's rule cchange the culture seems to have an answer in the affirmative...
scholars, pandits and historians any answers to the names part of this mail.
Karthik, Thanks for the genology of the Later Pandian Kings...
Latha, i will find out the details in the link that you have given me and get back...
Pavithra,gokul and others theplaces mentioned (*not* madurai and kabadapuram) were eroded by the sea just like our Cauveri Poom pattinam????? and you mean those places were submerged in sea long back???? even before silappadhikaaram???? coz i heard that ilangovadigal mentions " vadavengadam thenkumari aayidai tamizh koorum nallulagam".. if that is the case.. the erosion should have taken place very long back.. am i right???? and the telugu speaking people should have come before silpadhikaaram period.. any idea as to when telugu evolved?
another questions which pops into my mind is that people talk of having names in tamil and there are dirty translations of their names by some of our current day politicians..
then why is it all the names of the kings are in sanskrit and none of them have tamil names?? viz.. rajraja, rajendra, jatavarman,maravaramn, Narasimhavarma pallavan, rajasimha pallavan,mahendravarma pallavan to mention a few...
means tamil lost its glory after 5th century AD? but only after that shaivam and vaishnavam gained prominence due to the bhakti cult by the nayanmaars and aazhwars.... are things not confusing..? and the convention of having names in tamil like, karikaal chozhan, kanaikkal irumporai, killi valavan and all existed in early tamil kingdom and ceased to exist after the kalabhirars?
the question that will 200 years of kalabhirar's rule cchange the culture seems to have an answer in the affirmative...
scholars, pandits and historians any answers to the names part of this mail.
just to add to what pavithra has already written I suspect the sangams were earlier than the western historians claim.
The previuod two sangams were part of the lost Kumarikandam (geographically Lemuria) with the rise of the water level and migration of the landmass northwards it was lost.
I beleive the lost continent of Atlantis may have been our kumarikandam and the glorious golden age of atlantis might have been our sangam age( they were so prosperous that they chased hen with their thodu jimmikiii)
there is archeological evidence that tamils had trade and sea conrtact with the greeks so maybe thats what plato mentioned as atlantis.
Thanks for staying with us Inwould only echo Latha Krupa and Suji's sentiments Stay with us atleast in spirit and you can just correct and lead us when ever you think we are going totally astray.(Just like a patient grandfather who lets the grandchildren play and curtails when he needs to)
If reading thru all the messagews is difficult I ll do a weekly digest (I was planning on a monthly digest) and you can comment where necessary than going thru all of them.
Because young people don't want to partcipate in Agathiyar, where all the treasures are,
Well its lack of time ..but if mountain will not come to mohamed mohamed has to go to the mountain..so you ll see a new member today.
I agree with your statements about todays youth but not all of them are like that.
Unfortunately todays generation has got accostomed to be delivered everything on a gold paltter...Food and shelter and even pocket money from parents..lecture notes and question and answers for studies( i am not sure i yiy are aware whether a student buys a tamil text book or not they buy a Konar Tamil urai....can you beleive it that is the status of our younger generation
The same trent continues I have a question you have the answers why dont you give them to me than 'the seek and though shall find attitute'
Thanks for the trust and confidence you have in us and correcting us..
You did a ulzavaarapadai. Publicised it.
(well that was one of the thinks I was going to do to write about it in e journals
I wrote all this because I like you fellows and ladies - nice bunch actually - adorable in fact - and I know that none of you will scold me and I can get away scot free with it.
Thank you and of course we ll take it in the right spirit may be by next pongal we ll have contributed something significant to tamil heritage