Preface whatis india :: Inscriptions of Southern India were begun to be collected systematically by Professor Hultzsch from the latter part of 1886 when he was appointed Epigraphist to the Government of Madras. The Publication of these documents with texts and translations was taken up simultaneously and the following fasciculi of South Indian Inscriptions were issued between the years 1886 and 1903 : - Volume I ; Volume II - Parts i to iii; and Volume III - Parts i and ii. They include 321 records edited critically and supply all the material that may be practically be found necessary for constructing the rough outlines of Chola and Pallava history. In the year 1909, the later Mr. V. Venkayya, M.A., Rai Bahadur, Epigraphist to the Government of India, volunteered his services to continue the work of Professor Hultzsch and printed in Volume II, Part iv, such of the inscriptions of the Brihadisvara temple at Tanjore, as had not been published already in Parts i to iii of that volume... "
In Introduction, whatis india states :: "It is not necessary to give a detailed account to how the date of accession of Rajarajadeva has been arrived at. Professor Kielhorn has examined a number of dates of the king with astronomical details and has come to the conclusion that his accession took place between the 25th June and 25th July 985 A.D. "
these dates were subsequently debated.
Venkayya was heading the Indian side when big temple inscriptions were published.
Apart from LOGICAL ARITHMATICAL CALCULATIONS, comparing the data with Astronomical data base was done by one ( Rao Bahadur ) L Swamikkannu Pilliai .. based on "Panchangams " .. 1000 yr old panchangams were workedout...
If an inscription says : "abarapatsha mesha gnayitru .. suryagrahanam " SOLAR ECLIPSE in the month Mesha - post New moon - Sunday .. For example : such data avl on 977 oct 12th.. 1010 Sept 29th...
But the King in question is RRC.. so 1010 sept 29th fits " (likewise)
Kubakonam Raman & Raman Bus Owner (which became Cholan tranport later) N Sethuraman took interest in these studies and analysed most of the dates based on these data... there are certain discrepancies ::
Widely accepted that 969 AK expired. But he says this happened about 5 years earlier..
Likewise though there are discrepancies, re RRC's ascendancy, karakadaga Punarvasu was fixed... and thus 25.6.985 was not agreed upon.
Re Yandu and Anndu - Sethuraman has come out with an isolated explanation stating :: Aandu goes with Calender year... ( Say Maharathil Ravi - Sankaranthi - from Tamil month Thai).
Re yaandu - since Regnal year of King commences from his date of ascendancy, Aandu and Yandu does not go together... and hence inscriptions specified :: " Swasthishree korajakesari panmarrkku YAANDU .. ( 2 vathu .. 3 vathu... etc).. which means the date or year to be taken from the date of Crowning and NOT from Thai First !!
This he clarified with certain case studies of Uthama !!
Let me leave it here..
But the Astronomical Studies and comparing the dates ENDED with Swamikkannu Pillai and no one else continues this ...
Hence "Hail SK Pillai " !!
When spoke to Dr. Kalaikkovan some time back, he advised certain details can be had from St. Joseph College Library, Trichy... but myself could not persue ..
Tail Piece :: through the son and wife of (Late) Kudanthai sethuraman (who is now in USA) trying to get the working sheets supported the theories of Sethuraman ... very very beginning stage.
SPS uncle. thanks for the reply. You have confirmed that there are no formula or method for fixing the date mentioned in inscriptions and have to make total surrender to SK Pillai only.And. N.Sethuraman's calculations have some discrepancies in fixing the dates like AK's murder. This is what I have said. Madhu
Hi All it should be very valid for us all to read the histories of kings and events contemprory to RRC thro out the world. that would tell us how behind we are in recording the history of our kings we cant decide when rrc was born, we dont know for sure when he died or where he was buried. dont know much of his great battles, their locations, their dates, the enemies and details i would never forget the time a historian told me 'RRC's death is calculated from the date of the last inscription found in his name.' sometimes i feel there wasnt enough of our south indian history recorded for the british to onclude it in texts. most were generalisations and assumptions. and we complain that the south was ignored when the history was written.
Whenever this topic of recording history surfaces, we repeat the same line of thinking - again and again ::
After the British - hardly the inscriptions estamped have been published.
And several estempages lying unattended in the chambers of Mysore / ASI... till date.
Both the State Governments in succession had completed publishing about 25000 inscriptions in a span of about 3 - 4 years.
And not less than 100000 are yet to be studied and published..
and a good amount is yet to be estempaged..
We have very limited access...
how many of us have gone into what is in net already - say whatisindia.com ?
About 27 volues of South Indian inscriptions - ARE several volumes (gist) Epigraphia Indica - Avanam - Varalaaru - private collections (like whole series of Thiruvarur inscriptions published by Kudavoil)who has really gone into ?
There are about 150 books avl on Cholas alone - in Vridhachalam Library...
So it is not that the Kings have manipulated their History..
Meykeerthi alone does not form part of History...
Those who told Rajendra's going North was Theertha Yathirai have to keep silent when newer inscriptions unfolded...
Kedah @ Kadaram inscriptions threw more light recently..
with very limited resources these things are brought up .. and hardl any Government support..
We are not able to putforth behind-the-screnes valndalisms too openly in discussion..
" You have confirmed that there are no formula or method for fixing the date mentioned in inscriptions and have to make total surrender to SK Pillai only... "
I did not say so dear Madhu.
Arithmatical calculations only will hold water ...
But now most of the dates are more or less agreed by such calculations .... NOW means even after KAN Sastry... (first published 1932 ? )
Let us look at from this angle..
Pandyas left in mid 14th Century. Muslim invasion... Vijayanagar & Nayaks (Telugu / Marathi etc) inscriptions there after. British .. who did not scribe anything in our places of worship thanks to them..
They also took interest to realise what is written on these walls ? And did this methodically..
We - Free India - only should blame ourselves for not showing further interest in knowing our own History...
ASI South was located in Nilgri just because it suited to an officer.. then to Mysore because it suited to another.. that was mockery in pre-Independent India..
Thank God - MGR took State Archeology seriously and provided funds too...its Director was Dr. Nagasamy.. who continued under some of the subsequent CMs too ...
Without depending Arch Sruvey of INDIA - TN Archeology - broughtout District wise books related to inscriptions during his period... which is continued till date under Dr. TS Sridhar...
Once the Ascendancy of a King is fixed, then it becomes easier.
SK Pillai's calculations - helped in counter-checking certain details. The British also employed his methodology.
Certain errors were corrected subsequently.
What you said was 25.6.985 was RRC date of ascendancy.
What I posted from whatisindia the date was varying ..
I agree with Sridhar... you have good knowledge on several aspects of our Groups' interest.
Karuvurar - who composed hymns on Rajarajeswara and Gangaikonda choleeswara had evidently lived after RR also. Nambiandarnambi also sang a hymn on GKCpm.Gandradithya calling himself of King of Kori and lord of Thanjai. By these, we realise atleast 3 Thiruvisaippa authors lived prior-during and after RR.(SI Vol II - Part I & II)
According to Venkaiah, Epigraphist to Indian Government during the British Rule, until his 8th year of reign, RR had not undertaken any expedition.Probably he engaged in recruiting powerful army.
In his first expedition, he destroyed a fleet in port Kandalur, which belonged to Cheras but co-held by Pandyas. Prior to 1002 he completed most of his conquests. In 1001, the Survey to the accuracy of 1/52,420,800,000 of a veli was completed by Ulagalanthan! He had 31 regiments. Chozha Mandalam comprised of 9 Valanadus; Tondai nadu comprised of 7; Tondaimandalam : 12; Pandinadu: 7; Melai & Gangapadi: 1 each; Nulambapadi @ Nilgiri: 1; Muumudicholam : Ceylon etc : 2; 5 Divisions were also there in addition. Between 1002 and 1005 he concentrated on demoestic matters and was not active in war fields. As per Kongudesarajakkal, it may be derived that the Chidambaram temple authorities conferred the title Rajaraja in 1003. According to Hottur inscriptions, Satyasreya died in 1007-08 in the war waged by Rajendra with 900000 (9 lakhs) soldiers- slaughtered women, children, brahmins and taking the girls to wife and destroyed their caste. Upon return he is said to have presented gold flowers to Rajarajeswaramudayar @ peruvudayar!
Wait.. the consecration took place only on the 275th day of the 25th year then how come Rajendra worshipped Peruvudayar two years prior to that? The answer is the construction -in Mahudabaranam style - (ref. my earlier mails)- commcned in the 19th year - reached an advance stage in the 23rd year (gifts recorded from this year onwards) and was consecrated in the 25th year 275 th day!
In RRswm temple, His gifts & those of his sister Kundavai alone recorded on the Northern wall; His wifes' gifts on other walls; then others gifts recorded. Rajendra's gifts on Chandeswara temple etc., Thalicheri details on outer wall of Anukkan voil!
In Devaram & Thiruvisaippa - re: Chidambaram - the first hymn has reference of Adalvallan, which is the name of the chief image in Rajarajeswaram also. Meruvidankan is similarity of Kailash. It was believed that Mount meru consisted of Gold. Hence Chidambaram was gold covered...However, the author does not discuss the Golden roofing possibility of Big Temple.. (Ref. Kudavoil details also).
Above are the excerpts by V.Venkaiah in 1909.
In the Big Temple, we all saw the painting - a person with a beard and a person with a crown. I am beginning to concur with Gokul. The person with beard may be RR and the crown prince may be Rajendra. Whenever these Kings performed anything orthodox, they grew beard : Thiruvisalur Hinyagarbam - Thiruvalanchuzhi Thila parvatham entry etc. Our Kamal asked me a question yesterday. How do you confirm it is RR or Rajendra? Who else then? - is my answer. On the Northern side entrance of Thiruvalanchuzhi, we have seen Siva in sitting postures followed by several Rishis.. a bearded and crowned person also sit in obedience..One cannot avoid the influence of the monarchs in such art - even whether they like or not. Of course, RR is very methodical in recording most of the events..
He might have ..Probably he had done so.. As Gokul says, it is a feeling!!
But our Dr. Kalaikkovan has taught us - without concrete evidence do not commit.
In PS Group, we are not reserchers.. we speculate.. rather enjoy speculations based on certain logics and circumstances...
SPS Uncle I was trying to say that we dont know the exact meaning of Saka,Yandu, Andu etc . in inscriptions and the available explanations confuse us. I have seen a calendar for 200 years fixing the day and date, month in a diary. Likewise why dont we have a formula to fix the dates in Tamil years? I want to share another information I have. I have heard that there are more than 600 palm leaves docuements remaiining at Saraswati Mahal to be translated from Modi documents. One of them contains this details. Modi documents of Saraswati Mahal was translated by one Padmavathi Bai in 1982 and the work was not completed,.The Modi documents are preserved in Saraswati Mahal, Chennai Museum and Tirupati. And in 1984-85 National Archieves dept. from Delhi took all the documents in micro films for preservation. One of the microphotographer was N,S Mani, my dad's college mate. They took 25 rolls and Taminadu govt. failed to get copies from them since the Archieves dept. demanded charges for taking copies. If we can get atleast one of the above, I think more light will be thrown on Big temple and Rajarajan. Madhu