Hi in today ananda vikadan's question naswer by madan ( page 116) there is a very thought provoking set of kelvi pathil
irai anbu ias has asked madan why he cant write a parallel to " vanthaarkal vendraarkal" with chola history. madan explains thaty most of our history was unfortunately written by poets. with liberal doses of liqour and prizes they have enhanced the glory. he quotes the example of chola kings who supposedly went to the himalayas and says such kings perhaps never crossed telugu land. since those words come from an expert on indian history (not only has his book vanthaarkal vendraarkaL sold record volumes but also pulled a lot of people into reading history as a past time.)we need to think on them.
Dear Venkat I beg to differ with Madan...The Karikalan..imayavaramban and needunchezhian stories might be for grain and grandeur but the RRC,RJC and Kulothunga accomplishments are well recorded facts n history
in hathikumba inscriptions pf 1 st century Bc clearly mentioned pandya king came to kalinga and handed over perals and jewels to mahamehavahana king kharavela.
May be kings are not participated in the war front but due to matrimonial alliances of many kings proved ,they visited other countries for a good gesture.
in first queen of bhumakaras (orissa) during sevent century mahadevi is a daughter of rajamalla of south india.
madan is very forceful when he says writing a historical book on the muvendar is just not worth it. he quotes ponniyin selvan's name and says only fiction is posible. coming from another man its different. but madan is an aknowledged expert who brought history to the common man.
I guess experts in the group who think otherwise should give him a rejoinder and that too quickly. so it can be published next week
I have been following this gp for past 6 months and amount info i got from this gp is amazing.But i feel if all these details have been collected in some format it will be wonderful.We have some amazing people like Dr Jayabee etc in this gp.I feel all this info should be passed to others who r totally ignrant of Tamil Culture and Heriatge .I came across so suggestions by members on website or a wiki were we can add all these data.Actually in Wikipedia.There is project tamil nadu where some of us members.but problem is its huge project we need members.If more people can join i there will wonderful data base available free for benefit of people.In case you r not able to add ,please send it to me .I will add it myself.I sincerly appreciate all involved in the PS gp and congragulate one and all for their efforts .
Hi Karthik P.K As replied by all seniors, experts in this group, the files section and data base section contains SO MANY INFORMATION. You are free to use them and add them in web. Friends Satish, Sivaram KAnnan, Madan, Swetha are few who are into IT industry and you can collaborate with them to do what you think of.
dear friends, what i understand of madan's reply is..;he says that south indian history has not been recorded properly.so if i write it will not be authentic.i can not supplement it with facts.'vanthaarkal vendaarkal' had enough text to write historically."...even i feel the same.but for a few culverts and inscriptions and some poems we do not have any record to prove the war and rule.myself and karthik had often discussed this point.we had an ambition to direct a movie like the 'lord of the rings' and another movie which was in the offing,i do not remember the name[where 1000 elephants were brought in one scene, and the shower of arrows]...http://vijayanagar.blogspot.com/....july 2005 archive .... these two movies were real mammoth achievement..though karthik's dream was shocking,,,yet we discussed the possibilities..then we felt that we do not have enough hoistorical books to base the work upon. ....this is what Madhan says.not that he under estimates our chola dynasty or that he does not respect them.his reply is misunderstood.
I think you should find a way of transmitting the refutal in varalaru .com to MR. Madan.it would also give him a chance to mention his sources. if you write to the magazine concewrned too , they respond quite fast as I learnt last week. on last sunday there was a great article in the hindu on " the first real war of independence" by maruthanayakam, puli thevan and others. authored by S. Muthiah a renowned antiquarian. Rahul and I noted what we thought was an error in that article.( especially because we both are working on a project on yusuf khan saheb alias maruthanayagam.) it was mentioned that kattabommanaik participated in this rebellion. I wrote to the reader's editor of hindu on the error. I told him that when this rebellion was quelled in 1761 kattabomman was only one year old and couldnt have possibly fought in this war. on monday the renowned author responded and quoted his sources. luckily rahul owned one of the books that was quoted as a source.we checked up and this book (first printed a century ago ) does say so. this opens up a possibility that kattabomman's father or even grandfather had rebelled 40 years prior to veerapandyas hanging in kayathar. this is news to many who beleive kattabomman was the first to rebel in his lineage and that too only in his last few years. so again I think you must respond to anandavikadan or mR. Madan directly. venketesh
great work Venkat I totally agree this should be forwarded to vikatan for three reasons 1. For madan to defend his statement 2.to reach a wider readership 3. to actually vindicate our stant
Looking at Mrs. Kalavathy's response and I am with her in this controversy. I have no doubts that as a society we are as old as humanity is, but credible evidence does not seem to be showing up for the period before 100BC. We do have very ancient sites like the one near Gummidipoondi, Dr. Sirimoney's works point to lots of Iron age settlements and what not. Credible evidence is something everyone keeps asking about, do we know when we would have actually had Karikalan rule over the chola kingdom, no dates, we will not be able to come up with that.
Unquestionable evidence makes everyone stand up and take notice, that is something that we need to ponder about. Chola pass could be a mis-nomer just like the Cholula Indians(do we have common linkages here?) Or is that the Cholas are Persians in origin? I thought the Pallavas have been thought to be of Persianic in origin. Ohh.. so what we thought is not what was actually there???? Ohhh my, I am feeling like I am in the movie Matrix..
I am with the group, for sending Kamal's rejoinder to Madan. Vaazhaga Kamal. But sanity tells me to understand the scenario around Madan's comments to a question. Are we talking like our politicians, just trying to make hue and cry without actually understanding the situation and the cause for the statement.??
Sorry if I am hurting anyone's sentiment in this email.
History in oral tradition, like our poems, folk songs are just a reminder of our past, but in the eyes of historians they are not credible evidence, maybe they can be used as Corollary to the actual stuff to reconstruct whatever missing information that is needed to fill in the gaps.
do we know when we would have actually had Karikalan rule over the chola kingdom, no dates, we will not be able to come up with that.
yes nandakumar, we do have excellent corabarative evidence for the later cholas. but none at all for early cholas. we depend solely on poetry for it. especially karikalan and ilanjetchenni.
> Unquestionable evidence makes everyone stand up and take notice, that is something that we need to ponder about.
we are not belittling our kings. just complaining the recording of history wasnt all that efficient.
not even comparable to same periods in european history. I always quote the bayeux tapestry which relates like a cartoon the story of the battle of hastings in 1066. half a century behind the cholas.it was possibly completed by 1077 its a cloth 20 inches wide and 230 feet long. thats 70 metres. its embroided with scenes from the norman invasion of england. it gives minute details( there is a halley's comet in the back ground sky).you cant have more details surviving from that period and even that in cloth. please check this out in wikipedia.
Dear Nanda Just shows you think with your head and not your heart well done However there is enough evidence on the later cholas and pandiyas..so he doesnt have to be dismissive is my humble opinion
Yes, but what was the atcual question put forth to Madan? Was it the later Muvendars? Then Cheras are not point to mention here, as it was Ay Kings in Malabar at that time.
Early muvendars, we have only literary proof, which needs to be taken with a pinch of salt and as rightly what Kamal points filter off the chaff from the actual acheivements and locate underlying historical event. Chronology has been difficult in pin-pointing the period and age to which a king could be pointed to.
Sometimes Madan himself was stupid as he said Y2K is roman number when some reader asked about Y2K during 1998-99. Actually its Year 2000(Year 2 Kilo and Kilo=1000 in Greek).
Its Buddhi Thadumatram(Mind confusion).
Chola empire was proven thing and many many historians acknowledged that.
Madan made such blabberings though he born/raised in Thanjavur itself, he seen the big temple everyday and Kallanai was near to him before he arrived Chennai.
Even today if he travels to Thanjavur/Kumbakonam, he can not be missed seeing Gangaikonda Cholapuram.