Idol worship is part & parcel of catholic chrisrtians and also I beleive, of protestants.
That guy must be a pentacost who forms small minority among minority christians in India.
Infact pentacost christians treat catholics and protestants who follow idol worship, also in the same bad view.
Many will be surprised to know they do all gimmics to convert other christians also like poor Hindus, to their fold
Infact catholic Christianity to some extent survived & spread in India due to similarity it followed from Hinduism.
Catholics followed every thing of Hinduism except the god.They hoist flag during church festival, shave heads in Velankanni and even marriage customs as per their old caste traditions.
In Tamilnadu it can be found Catholic chrisitians have their old castes still with them , Christian nadars do not marry other caste christians. SC christians marry SC christians only.
Hindus and Catholic christians are not much different as far as in india is concerned
Regarding that pentacost guy, we should not care if a dog barks at sun.
But ofcourse such a thing can not happen in a muslim country otherwise he would not have been there after the meeting
I feel easwaran is right. Hinduism should not be treated as just another religion.Hinduism is a way of living which has evolved over centuries. Idol worship is present because our ancestors believed in the presence of a superior being(God or no god is another matter). Idol worship did not start one fine day it was and still is evolving.
Just because one person says it is wrong does not make it worthless.
As Easwaran pointed if that person had said something similar in a muslim coutry he would not have left their shores.
We really are very tolerant people. Democracy has its limits.
Kathie: I am not sure what can opener this was, it leads to another debate.
I am perfectly fine with idol worship.
What would a Cross be in a 1000 years ? What would Mother Mary be called as ? Or Jesus on a cross? I see them as idols too.
There are more scientific thoughts to this idol thing.
Like venkat mentions, feeling secure on the concept is everything. I am secure, i can counteract any one who comes to me with their counter. I believe there was a purpose for the idols and it plays a very important part of identifying the path of our religion.
Idol worship are way way way much better than crazy rituals. Is the lingam an idol ?
It's the word : "idol", that I don't care for, not the concept. I think my point was too subtle. You folks speak several languages, me, only one. I've been a bhakti before many murthis in India, and have had the blessing of 'darshan' of Lord Shiva Mahakalar, Mallikarjunar, Grishneshwarar, Omkareshwarar, Somanathar, & most moving of all: Sri Vishvanathar at Kasi. I am an honorary Hindu, I think. Remember I said: I can't be a Christian, don't believe in the divinity of Jesus. kathie
I see your view point and I totally agree with you. In my mind, 'idol' symbolizes something that is lifeless/powerless whereas the term "murthy" is something that has divinity residing in it. This divinity is incorporated by using the appropriate manthras (="chants"?) to invite/command the devata to temporarily take residence in the murthy.
Almost all the poojas that are performed at home have something called "prana prathishta" that accomplishes the above task. During the repairing of a temple, the divinity of the main murthy in a temple is temporarily transferred to another idol. After the repairs are completed, at the time of kumbhabhishekam, the divinity is transferred back to the main murthy ("moolavar" in Tamil).
So, if we see the destruction of temples by invaders in this context, the priests in the temple would usually transfer the divinity from the granite statue in the temple to some other statue that is portable. Any subsequent damage to that idol or temple is seen to be just a destruction of something that is no longer divine. While the loss is significant historically, Hinduism is able to survive and resurrect itself.
In this context, I am reminded of a couple of photographs published in Yahoo news in the immediate aftermath of the New Orleans flooding after the hurricane. In one photograph, a black person is seen to be wading in chest deep water carrying some items and the caption was to the effect "looter carrying stuff away from a shop". In the other photograph, a white person is seen to be wading in chest-deep water carrying some other item and the caption never used the term "looter".
The West is quite versatile in playing this game with the language. Any attack on civilian population of the West deemed to be civilian casualties whereas similar loss of civilian life in the rest of the world is termed as "collateral damage".
We must understand the nuances of the language to be able to counter such impressions.
I think Kathie referred to the word 'idol' and not idol worship. The word 'idol' has a negative connotation and often used in a derogatory sense to put down moorthy/vigraha worship.
Some words have a deeper meaning which will not be evident in use of conventional translations. I am for using the original words from our culture for those words which lose their depth when equivalents are specified. e.g. karma/ aRam - duty, atma - soul
> > > > What would a Cross be in a 1000 years ? What would Mother Mary be > > called as ? Or Jesus on a cross? I see them as idols too. > > > > > > Idol worship are way way way much better than crazy rituals. > > Is the lingam an idol ?
I would like to repeat a sequence from dan browns latest book which got lost out of context last time
the professor of symbology mentions in his class that across america ritualism is still performed. he says "on the pagan day of the sun god ra, i kneel at the foot of an ancient instrument of torture and consume ritualistic symbols of blood and flesh" to the horrified class he asks " havent you all taken communion on sunday in a church?
and finishes the class with " open your minds. we fear what we do not understand. venketeh
Idol worship, avatar worship , nature worship etc etc . I feel that we should see it in a broader canvas of multiple births. I understood that the Easiest way is to pick up what God has given you. I understood from Geeta that Practise your swadarma. ( can i say the form of worship in which god gave you birth) That will automatically lead to the ultimate end.
Why question God's decision on worshipping him.?
I understood from Bhagawad Geetha that 2 people are to be condemned. One who dose not follow his dharma and the second who practises other's dharma.
I believe God as a Doctor, who had given different medicine to different people for the same diecease according to the body condition.
Ramakrishna Paramahamsa the great advidi also worshipped idols.
Hinduism believes the divinity of Individuals ( and divinity of every individuals also, Don Brown quotes abour these thoughtsof christianity)
Realsied souls are reverred in Hinduism like raghavendra, Shirdi Sai.
I feel thare is no such rule of any particular worship.
> So, if we see the destruction of temples by invaders in this context, the priests in the temple would usually transfer the divinity from the granite statue in the temple to some other statue that is portable.
I read of a protocol of how to bury a moorthy during an invasion. how a pit is dug up filled with river sand... etc
but unfortunately it was seldom done.
ranganathar was hid behind hay ( I think), nataraja was shifted to malai naadu and the madurai temple kept a "dummy" lingam ahead of a wall built in a hurry to protect sundareshwara. the lingam that was broken with the crow bar is still exhibited in madurai temple.
but ofcourse no records remain of the dark ages that followed the invasions of 1300s . so your guess is as good as mine.
> The West is quite versatile in playing this game with the language. > We must understand the nuances of the language to be able to counter such impressions.
there is absolutely no nuances involved in this case. you speak of entire western civilisation as one entity. though the sequences you speak of may have happened in this case , we are using a word that has been negatively used for 2000 years. we borrowed that word . abrahamic religions are founded on the event of breaking of the golden calf idol by moses/ aaron. and muhammed of course broke idols around the kaabaa.