Sacrificial rituals have been part of Hinduism from time immemorial, we hear about how penances were performed by tenacious boon seekers sacrificing limbs or even human lives. Several bloody sacrificial practices were common during Hindu religious rituals ( tantric sacrificial rituals) in the period of social and religious rudderless-ness and vacuum when Buddism and Jainism reached their nadir points. The religious practices were given direction and attained restoration thorugh the preachings of reformers such as Adi Shankara in the 8 th century . Several obnoxious practices such as Sati ( co-cremation of widows along with diseased husbands ) continued socially well into 19th Century until it was legally banned by the British in Bengal around 1829. We know of a few occurrences even during our present times.
Some of these extreme rituals to me appear to be of social compulsions and or for acceptance without semblance of adherence to devotion, even though they are colored of religious connotation. Participants of 'Thee midhi' or shiates' who engage in self beating bloody on the tenth day of 'moharram' have more fervor and less of everything else. The performers no doubt end up in risking bodily injuries.
There was only one Kannappa nayanar we know of symbolizing unconditional adoration to the Lord he believed and nursed by culling his one eye. We also know that the Lord came to stop him from doing further self infliction.
Every year people walk from my native Devakottai to Palani(175 km - 7 days walk) during Thaipusam. When I was in my college second year I walked this pathayathirai. Very good experience, Practically even the strongest man cant have stamina to walk the distance without pain. I was first timer I couldnt walk at all. It was impossible. That one of the rare time I realised it it requires some thing more than self confidence to walk the distane. It surely needed the drive, the ferocity and religious fervour. The songs sung by people while they walk esp there is one song 'Karupar Paatu' which just makes u violent. I have experienced it my self. I was done and out( I have flat foot a deformity which causes pain in the bones above the heels if you walk for long). Still some 3-4 miles were left in the days walk, it was around 10Pm in the night. I was about to fall two people caught me on their shoulders and I totally knew I couldn't walk even for a min. Two guys held me and one person with his powerful voice started singing the Karupar paatu(the song is supposed to be very powerful..when ever this song is sung some ladies get the frenzy while going on padyatra)..the song had some vibrations...I could nt open my eyes , I was still tired ..but my legs walked. After a while we reached the destination. When we reached the destination all people said I got'Saami' and I was walking really fast like as if I was possessed. Only thing I knew was I wasnt possessed but at the same time- till date-I cant understand how I could walk so fast for one hour when I dint have even a bit of energy to stand on my own legs(no water no glucose no gatorade)? I nearly saw a miracle in the same trip. One of my relatives was strung by scorpion on the way. Sivaganga town was 1 hr away. He didnt want to get on a bus(since the veratham would end).. so with the scorpion bite he walked for 1 hr to Siva ganga and went to a clinic(actually they closed the clinic some how we found the doctor)...
These are things you dont experience in a day to day life. You see Thousands of people walking to Palani. My sister was carrying her 1 year old daughter and walking. Religion and God becomes really essential when you take up trip like that. Totally different experience for me. To be without TV internet phone and lie down where ever u feel like( I have had short sleeps on the muds in the side of Highways) and eat in places u will never dream of in normal days.
Its one place u realize there is some thing more than self confidence. When you lose ur self confidence you solely depend on GOD to move further. I experienced it and till date it is a memorable trip in my life.
There is only one kannappar !!! Hmm, that's the pity, the 63 adorn the quiet sides of our temples and we are not aware of their feats. Oferring own hair as a wick, grinding ones elbow for sandal wood, letting even an assasin go, wanting to give up his life when the king finds his war killed one saint !!, pillai kari ( oferring own child's meat), tonsuring his daughter on the eve of her marriage ....how many you want
Vairam, what a nice inspiring story!! Mine is somewhat similar, we used to walk from our home in Kovai up Marudamalai which is equivalent to Palani in terms of height and steeper as I understand.
My understanding of such feats has changed/matured and continues to grow over time. The best way i can put it as of now is that - the modern mind is not easily freed from thought. Thought as many spiritual teachings say is the biggest barrier to experiencing divine grace. When you put your body through extreme exhaustion the mind gives up thinking. So you have direct access to the great divine energy out there that can lift you body and spirit in miraculous ways. The difference between extreme expereinces that involve personal achievement (say such as scaling high peaks) and experiences with religious base is that the second allows for the mind to give up thought and surrender to what is there. Most high acheivers who are exhausted are unable to surrender the mind and many times succumb to their exhaustion - many others realize the limits of human thought this way and experience what may be their first ever spiritual awakening.
This is not an understanding that even requires any belief in religion or God although that belief makes it much simpler :)) Malathi
I think on terms with Sri TMS that some of these are social compulsions and some are pure fervour that is hard to categorize. I think things like 'pillai kari' are not things one should eulogize in these times and age. It is also somewhat indicative of our own double standards isn't it not ..we think Jayadeva's example of a woman risking adultery to prove her love to the lord is obscene but we think a man cooking his child to prove is devotion is a great feat???
If you notice I did not say *` great'*, only feats. They were judged and inducted into the hall of fame ( by who - venkat has asked this question many time). To understand why and what were the criteria etc, needs a measure, judgement and understanding that a contemporary yardstick will not do justice.
I was only wanting to highlight the rest of the elite group as a reply to below statement by our good member and that there are many more such feats in tiruthondarthogai.
*" here was only one Kannappa nayanar we know of symbolizing unconditional adoration to the Lord he believed and nursed by culling his one eye."*
Hi VJ, I didnt' mean 'you' called it great feat, you only highlighted the feats which are normally deemed great, it just occured to me since we just talked of Jayadeva and the Radha story a while ago, the parellels between moral judgements that is all.
I was merely responding to one of the comments made by Srinivasan Natarajan on the subject- "The term true devotion itself is relative. I can never dare to call Kannappa Nayanar sacrificing his eyes as stunt."
The points I was trying to make are-
a. Kannappar (and the alike) demonstrated unconditional, single minded and steadfast devotion that surpassed physical sufferings. The relation was one to one with the Lord who tested his devout commitment to the cause. It is also true in each one of the stories of Nayanars ( thanks for your some references to the 63 you have made ).
Once tested, and proved of his sterling devotion, Kannappa was stopped from culling out his second eye-
b. Physical suffering is not the only measure of true devotion.
c. 'thee midi' rituals can't be compared to devotions exemplified by the likes of Kannappa.
Ms. Malathi, thanks for your clarification; it is indeed difficult to make a distinction of group fervor influenced by social compulsions from true devotion.
In my humble opinion neither physical sufferings demonstrate devotion, nor scriptures prescribe them as atonement.
Your reference to cleaning murky mind is life long sojourn, to realize that mind needs cleaning being the first mile stone.
Sri. Vairam's story is touching demonstration of faith and conviction. Such experience with divinity could be best cherished by the individuals who undergo the encounters.
Hmm, that's the pity, the 63 adorn the > quiet sides of our temples and we are not aware of their feats. > Oferring own hair as a wick, grinding ones elbow for sandal wood, > letting even an assasin go, wanting to give up his life when the king > finds his war killed one saint !!, pillai kari ( oferring own child's > meat), tonsuring his daughter on the eve of her marriage ....how many > you want
Dear Vijay
i think in the archieves you will find the political apointees too. or for example, sundaras father mother and step father are included.
> > > > Dear Vijay > > i think in the archieves you will find the political apointees too. > or for example, sundaras father mother and step father are included. > > venketesh > > hi venkatesh
Do we decide on such or do we need to discount it that there is a good chance that some of these could have been destroyed in the termite onslaught in thillai ( you wonderfully brought it in thillaiyil oru kollaikkaran - i was really transported to that scene ). For eg, we tend to read lots of acts of sundarar but just a few lines for some others.
> > > Every year people walk from my native Devakottai to Palani(175 km > > - 7 days walk) during Thaipusam.
yes and those like me who know their spiritual and physical limits walk to kunnakudi the day before thai poosam its more than 25 km. somewhere around 30.to be completed in a day
your legs literally beg to stop. and climbing the hill last ...
people also walk to velankanni from chennai. you could see long lines on the ecr. thats more than 300 km.
> yes and those like me who know their spiritual and physical limits walk to kunnakudi the day before thai poosam > its more than 25 km. somewhere around 30.to be completed in a day > > your legs literally beg to stop. and climbing the hill last ...
Na mattum appadiye ponum na ponnen sir, My mother when i was born had a venduthal that she will carry me and walk. But after I was born she was diagnosed with some conditions because of which she cant walk on a such a big trip any more. So they made me walk for the Padayatirai!
But I dont regret doing it, was a nice experiecne!
See its all in the mind :-) Mind over matter. Deivam endral athu deivam, verum silai endral athu silai thaan ! Belief is key to these venduthals to succeed, like in inventions / discoveries/ business / movies / history of monarchs etc - that one 'chosen' person,who believed in what he/she wanted, has endured success but not before the ultimate test of faith - the same drama all over.
However, the word 'ancient' ritual is something I am curious, ellarume ancient nu sonna athule arthame illai, my grand dad's thoughts - property etc are ancient, raja rajan's is also ancient, nalan killi is also ancient... so when did this 'ancient' practice come to play ?
There is no harm as long as the individual wants to do it on their own will and fancy, its their absolute choice, we may not be able to do that, they would - thats simple faith and trust.
Mottai adicha mudi valarathu nu therinja ethanai per mudi vettuvanga? Appadium sila per vettuvanga - athu thaan intha mathiri venduthal ?
Lastly, DK or any rule cannot change these simple thoughts of people, a favourite line from the serial vidathu karuppu (Tried to recreate as much):
Heroine: Raasu thaan karuppu nu nirubichu intha oor makkal oda nambikkaiya odaichitten, inime yaar inge Karuppu iruku nu solluvanga Counter: Nee appadi solare, ange paar
Scene: People wash the aruval and clothes and take it as a procession to the temple
While on the topic, Did kannappar put his leg on the lingam while gouging his other eye. Or did shiva stop him when he was in the act of doing it in his first eye? Rememeber reading an interesting article in earlier issues of varalaru.com regarding a sculpture panel fm sriperumbudur temple. Will try and post it again. So was there an attempt ( later) to add some addnl masala / mirchi.
> However, the word 'ancient' ritual is something I am curious, ellarume ancient nu sonna athule arthame illai, my grand dad's thoughts - property etc are ancient, raja rajan's is also ancient, nalan killi is also ancient... so when did this 'ancient' practice come to play ? >
similar debate happened in this group on what can be considered a historic novel. kireedam and pOr vaal irukkanumaa? or is alai osai too a historical novel?