Ponni, the name of kaviri must have been very old.
Kambar used this word in many stanzas.
Dhivya Prabhandam, Saint Thondaradippodi used this word 'Ponni soozh Thiruvaranga' in his song starts with 'Manaththil Or thuuymai yillai............ponni soozh thiruvarangaa, enakku kathi ini en solvaay.. ennai aaLudaiya kOvE!
Kambar says Ponni is equalant to Kaviri - 'ponniyanaiya gangai' - but Thondaradippodi Azhwar, with a step ahead, says 'Gangaiyinum PUNITHA kaaviri (paasuram starts with ' GangaiyiR punithamaaya kaaviri naduvupaattu)
Thank you very much for the details. ======================================================================================= 'Manaththil Or thuuymai yillai.............ponni soozh thiruvarangaa, enakku kathi ini en solvaay.. ennai aaLudaiya kOvE! =======================================================================================
Therefore they didnt call the Kaveri and Kollidam by its name rather they call it as "ponni" river. Both kambar and Azhwar calling it as ponni, when did it became kaveri? We have any reference for " Kaviriku karai ezuppinaan karikaalan"??
Before discussing Kaa-viri, I must thank you for giving a word for Saraswathi in Tamil as KAA.
You have any details on this?. and which classic works it was mentioned?
For several months we were searching a suitable 'single word' in Tamil for Saraswathi.
For Parvathi - Malai-magaL is called in a single word in Tamil as 'KOTRAVAI' For Lakshmi - Alai-magaL is called in a single word in Tamil as 'eNNaNai' For Saraswathi - Kali-magaL ?
When discussed this subject though it went for weeks, they could find only 'NAAMAGAL' but when I questioned this as a duel word, they said this is a single word like Kannan (KaN-an).
But if you and or any other member of this learned group find me an answer, I will be grateful.
The names of Saraswathy as given in my previous mail are from Choodamani Nigandu (1925 edition). The verse giving those names is from chapter 1- 35 in Deva-p-peyar thogudhi. The verse is as follows:- (Spacing is done by me to show each name)
The meaning deduced from the last 3 quotes is *"vaarkka-p-paduvadhaal vaakku" * The root word is 'vaarthal'.
This word is used in the context of picking up something from a larger volume of that something and offering it. Like 'neer vaartthal'.
In the Pura nanuru verse it is in the menaing of 'kaL vaartthal" In the kali-th-thogai verse, it is in the meaning of "neer vaartthal" In the Pura veNbha verse, it is in the menaing of "theendEral vaakku" (offering honey)
We can see that we dont have the exact or specific term ijn Englsih for this 'vaartthal'. When some part of a thing is drawn out from a larger volume of that and is given out, it is vaartthal. Therefore 'Vaakku' is what is 'vaarkka-p-paduthal'.
That vaakku is what is drawn from the 'naa'. Since she is naamagaL, she is signifactor or kaarak or dispositor of 'vaakku'. Therefore 'VaakkaaL' - one who is in vaakku.
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* .
Is Dhanam a sanskrit term?
Then what do we say fof the KuraL, 'Dhanam thavam irandum thangaa viyanulagam...' ?
Coming to the next name you have rasied doubts about - *VaaNi.*
This is also found in the Nigandu.
Though I have not yet come across the exact word "vaaNi' in the olden texts I have read, I can however give the connections, from the nigandu (solla-p-paduvadhaal VaaNi) meaning.
A (dis)claimer in this context is that I always assume that if a word like this or any thing that looks like an issue or as non-compliant, is found in olden texts, thereby establishing their usage in those times, then we can not doubt them. There must be some rationale behind them. In such cases, we have to explore the rationale and understand them in the context.
In this way, I think VaaNi is very much a Tamil word. We have the meaning given in Nigandu as 'solla-p-padubhavaL'. This meaning is similar to Gayathri which is also found as a synonym for Naamagal in the Nigandu. But gayathri's root word is sanskrit (Chandokhya upanishad)
The root of VaaNi can perhaps be understood from the experession "paaNi" in Silapapdhikaaram,
Here PaaNi means "isai vudaiyathu" It means 'Paattu'
There is Deva paaNi - whcih means songs in praise of devas. (Tol kaapiyam - PoruL- 350) This has 2 versions - Perum deva paaNi and Siru Deva paaNi. There are further sub divisions in these two and Kaanal vari of Silabhu is one among the PaaNis.
This 'PaaNi' is the root of 'PaaNan'. In my opinion this PaaNi has become VaaNi. The proof I quote to substantiate this is "vaaNan pErUr" in the same chapter in Silappadhikaaram (line 54)
The *VaaNan* here is BaaNaasuran. The pa/ba (having no difference in Tamil) is interchangeable with Va.
The '*Veena pusthaka PaaNi*' (Mahakavi Bharathiyaar) is the root of the word VaaNi. She is VaaNi as she is being spoken / sung by Veena and books ( for being the signifactor of these)
Another conenction of Vaani with Paanar is the Lotus gifts (in gold) that Paanars used to get (there are 6 verses in Puranauru saying this) and the Paanar's habit of wearing White lotus on their head. A kind of reminder of naamagal / VaaNi conenction. (verses 12 & 141 in Pura nanuru 'paanan choodiya pasum potraamarai' 141 paanar thaamarai malayavum 12 )
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On* kaveri*, hope you read my post in my blog on that. Read the comment section. Kavera is the father of Kaveri. Her name is derived from his name - she is kavera kanyaka.
On* Kumari,* the 7 sacred rivers including Kumari are given in the Choodamani nigandu. I have given the verse in the previous mail.
About Kumari, again it is a long topic which I have covered here and there in my posts in my blog. I am sure you must be aware of the basic information on river kumari. It drained at the southern tip of the Kumari kandam of the Pandyans of yore when they were known as Panchavar / Gowriar / Thennavar. The first deluge engulfed it along with a huge mass of land which was however stopped by Ugra pandyan (Kadal Vadimabhalam nindra Pandyan) (in the comments section of http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.com/2008/02/no-aryan-dravidian-divide-it-was-one_08.html )
But he could not stop the loss of Then Madurai and Kumari river.
The last verse of Aaicchiyar kuravai in silabhu "Idi-p-padai vaanavan muditthalai vudaittha thodi thOl thennavan" refers to this feat of Ugra Pandyan.
The second deluge that happened at the time of close of Kali yuga wiped off Kapaata puram along with a land mass that stretched far and wide. The Pandyan escaped along with some "Thol Kudi" (including aayar kudi) and moved to the present day Southern land of Kumari. The reference is found in Kali-th-thogai.