Hi all, It is really interesting to read about all these discussion on the ability of a civilization to adapt to changes etc.
When do we say with any certainity that a civilization has collapsed? I have come across many arguments about how the Indian civilization is the only oldest one that's in existence continuously from prehistoric times. Is there any truth in that? We may claim ourselves to be part of that great civilization. But if our ancestors time travel and see the present day India they would find themselves among a civilization which is significantly different from theirs.Can anyone in the present day Egypt claim they belong to the civilization that built the Pyramids? If it is so how are we different from the Egyptians? We too have changed completely. The dress we wear, the system of education, governance and to a certain extent even the language that we use are of European origin. I feel it is a completely different civilization which sprang from the mixture of two different civilizations with mutually contradicting philosophies. Looking at the way we have advanced in this new setup it appears that the transformation is irreversible and is proceeding gradually towards obliterating all the traces of our parent civilization. We cannot go back to the glorious parent civilization but we can retain the best components from getting obliterated. Are we going to check this decay at all. If we are going to do that how? I have some ideas. I will write if anyone is interested. But I am sure others have better ideas than mine.
Static civilizations die. Period. The only civilizations that last keep changing. Even the Japanese had to undergo the Meiji Restoration in the 1800s in order to get rid of the terrible lethargy that had set in because of being totally cut off from the rest of the world.
The charm of history is that we get to learn the good things that happened and the bad. With reference to the current discussion on constantly changing civilizations - civilization had changed Even look at PS. The early to chola's to the later chola's had evolved (dissolved and evolved with wars:) Other than the luxorious living of kings and nobelmen many things would have changed. Foriegn travellers would have brought in new foods, clothes and culture. Civilizations go forward by taking the good things from the past and living well plus shaping a good future from all that they have learned and know.
very few if any civilsation could be older than 10000 years because that was when the last glaciation period of the last ice age was over. ( inter glacial periods last 12000 years only) and so if you have any important work to finish, try to hurry. during ice ages and glacial periods men lived off nature and had very few community activity. mostly as cave men. the first signs of intelligent civilisation started in sumer( agriculture, wheel, and language developed one after another in quick succession).sumer is present day iraq.
while some people claim civilisations to be 10 000 years and older we should pause to examine. -The driving force of mankind is the wheel.
its very difficult to beleive advanced civilisations could have lived without the usage of the wheel.
the first type of wheel invented was the potters wheel and then came its vertical usage.
this was 5000 bc in sumeria.
paleoanthropologists now date the emergence of anatomically modern humans to ca. 150,000 years ago, 143,000 of those years were "wheel- less"
the pyramids were built without the use of a wheeled vehicle.
one trivia
In July 2001, the wheel was patented by an Australian as a "circular transportation facilitation device". The innovation patent was obtained by John Keogh, a lawyer from Melbourne, Australia, with the declared intention of demonstrating flaws in the recently introduced innovation patent system
Brilliant thought Venkatesh. The bit about the Australian lawyer is hillarious. However, it gets me wondering, the potters wheel was used to make pots. How did mankind make earthen pots before the advent of the wheel? The Egyptians who built the pyramids would have defintely used some kind of commuting device, chariots, carts.....just wondering:) Deeps
-the egyptians used wooden rollers but could not go on to the next logical step of fitting the rollers on to their sleds.
since they had ample slaves they didnt really bother I guess.
brute force was what they depended on to move the 10 ton blocks.
Please do read ' river god" by wilbur smith for a wonderful egyptian novel. it says how the greates civilisation on the earth loses to a tribe of shepherds who have mastered the wheel.
Thanks ventakesh, lovely flow of thoughts and ideas. These leather bags must have kept water cool. I wonder how the PS team (if we can call the Chola clan that) did to take water around. They were at war, went to other towns...
-I am not sure here but in other areas patrol troops used go ahead of the army and bury large cisterns of water. in a wet area like ours I am sure rivers would have been check dammed
wells dug or ponds deepenned.
well when you come to that chapter in PS you will realise how veeraanam lake ( saw it in a sattelite map recently) was excavated. it is just enormous!
but as you rightly worried logisticsa was an important aspect of warfare. you had to feed thousands. 'an army marches on its stomach' I think it was napolean who said that.
the russians always succeeded in defending their home land because of a slash and burn habit. burn up all resources as you retreat. every army has the local food included on the menu. so they will suffer. the same thing happens in sivakamiyin sabatham too.