Whatever happened in Pandiyan era is dark times to Tamilnadu. Let us forget.
I would say it is curse on Pandiayan otherwise the great Pandiyan Nedunchezhiyan wouldn't have killed Kovalan and taking died himself. He was suppose to become an another Karikalan and his fate dumped him.
I think Karikal Cholan ruled TN before Nedunchezhiyan.
If things were right Nedunchezhiyan also would have followed as Karikal Cholan to make empire.
Anyway a beautiful empire made by either of our Tamil brethren.
I guess there were several Nedunchezhiyans that ruled in the cankam age. The Mangulam inscription near Madurai mentions a Pandian Nedunchezhiyan and it is dated to 3rd Century BC. The Nedunchezhiyan name seems to be a rather legendary name and the Silapathikaram story can not be associated with any single Nedunchezhiyan of the cankam times.
Recently I bought "Sankam age Tamil coins" by Dinamalar editor and this book says there were 2 different Karikalans in the cankam age!
The Pandians by and large were warrior tribes. Unfortunately, they never left a big record of their history. They were the only dynasty to have ruled India over 2 millenia. Sadasiva Pandarathar was able to trace their history until the late 16~17th century and concludes that they were reduced to the state of zamindars. I strongly hope that decendants of the ancient Pandians still live today in the Tenkasi region.
Kulasekara Pandian had a large library. I heard that just before it was reached by Vu. Ve. Su. Iyer, somebody dumped it into the river! If he had gone there a bit early, he could have recovered several things. Who knows what was in that? Perhaps Aindiram or even Akathiam itself?
Thats how we care for our heritage.
History of India could have been very different, if only the later Pandias didn't eradicate the Cholas and didn't invite the moghuls to plunder their own country...
Dear Mr.venkateswaran Kasirajan, I am a new member here and i found your post(feb 22,2006) about the Pandiyas.I heard that Mr.Sadasiva Pandarathar traced the Pandiyan descendents and unfortunately he passed away before concluding his work.But who were those zamindars?I have mentioned earlier about a family in tirunelveli region.They claim that Adhiveerarama Pandiya(1558 to 1604AD) and Varathungarama Pandiyar (1588AD) as their ancestors.Also its said that they conduct Shiratham for those Pandiyas.I don't know exactly what siratham means?Does Shiratham means Divasam?
I had this book by Pandarathar and I remember him saying that the Pandians were reduced to the level of Zamindars and continued to live in the Tenkasi region in that book. I have to search for this book in my archives at my native place.
srartham means devasam ( ie rites to a deceased ancestor )
I read some posts in "karuthu" about Pandian lineage few days ago.
If you know this family, we can meet them from our group along with selected historians and bring about the facts. I can arrange logistics, since my native place is Madurai.
The Saptur Zamin is a family friend of my wife's side. I will try to meet the present Zamindar S.K.N.K.R. Kamayanaicker this summer and see if he has some records or memories or pointers on this.
I am not from a southern district and i don't know even one person from these districts.Before taking the next step we have to get the advise of the historians.I somehow managed to track the zamindar whom Mr.Sadasiva Pandarathar mentioned but i am not quite sure.He is the former poligar and zamindar of Sivagiri in Tirunelveli region.One zamindar is identified as "varagunarama Sankarapandiya vanniyanar" through a pillar inscription at Rasingaperi near Sivagiri.This chieftain ruled in 1754AD(Saka year 1676).
Think Mr.Natana Kasinathan former director of Archaelogy know some details.
There is also another zamin family-The zamin family of Alakapuri.They were relatives of the Zamindars of Sivagiri.They had names like Kattari Pandiyar,chidambara Pandiyar etc.Another one relative of the Sivagiri Zamindars were the Zamin family of Ezhayiram Pannai.They lost their Zamin long back. And i think these three zamin families of Sivagiri,Alakapuri and Ezhayiram Pannai might be the families mentioned by Mr.Sadasiva Pandarathar.
Asylum Press Almanack and Directory of Madras and Southern India (1909)lists the zamindars of tamilnadu. this has been wideley referred to by Rudner, David West in Caste and Capitalism in Colonial India.
Wow....This is what I think, we Indians lacked all through the years....detailed recordings.
I didnt go through the entire book, just flipped through the first few pages on the chapter on Madras....my god, what a picturisque description captured in words, of Madrs of those times. Brilliant gathering of information.
News to me - George Town was earlier called Black Town !!
Nungambakkam was a village in the suburbs of Madras. Marmalong Bridge (bridge across Adyar in now Saidapet) was built in 1726... Guindy housed the Governor's country house (is it something like a farm house on ECR these days?)... Fields on the side of roads (even mount road) like a rural place.
Island grounds was used for recreation from those days itself. Luz chruch has the oldest European inscription in India...
And Madras was third biggest city in India with 27Square miles. :)
In just three pages I could gather so much of information (and to admit, I have not captured them all).
what a recording of information.
Thanks Venkatesh, this is a gem to be archived for future reference.
But I wonder, why the measures are in lbs, miles and farenheit and not the metric system as we use today??
Thanks Mr.Venketesh. A typical British account of those times. Some really fascinating facts have been included. I liked the one about "Jellicut" the best. The British have described it as being "sufficiently hazardous"!! Although they seem to have acknowledged the history of these lands im not sure they have given enough credit to our engineering prowess. For example in the Madura District section the Madurantakam tank has been described for nearly 3 pages explaining every small detail while the Meenakshi Temple,Nayak Palace and Teppakulam find few mentions here and there. I know Gazette is not the place to wax eloquent about history but acknowledgement of engineering skill of our forefathers would have been nice.
That said, some descriptions are top-class to say the least. i doubt whether even the records of our present day collectors are this beautiful.
I have a question..are today's records still primarily written in English? Are there versions in Tamil,Hindi,etc?
-HI Rahul Though I knew about this site earlier and had book marked it, i have been visiting it more frequently over the last two days
fascinating accounts of how chidambaram temple and tanjore temple were used as gun powder storages by the europeans.
and there have been so many battles for coimbatore during the tipusultan time. i never knew it before. i request all members to use their home towns as a keyword and try to find out some british versions of its histor.
rahul what perturbed me in the report on madras was the big tank/ or long tank. its exactly where today's pondy bazar is. see how a city's landscape has changed over a century.
check out gangai konda chola puram in the gazette. though they are a little confused on who actually built it they talk about a huge canal system in the offing to fill up the nearby lake.
also lots about coins. and a new news- could be challenged how the name varahan originated. from the varaha symbol on chalukya coins.
Dear Mr.venkatesh, Is the lake you mentioned the "Cholagangam" constructed by Rajendra Chola 1? I think the canal system must be constructed at a much later stage.
Hi I dont think the canal was ever constructed. the gazette mentions detailed planning was going on.
but one intersting thing mentioned was local villagers were quarrying for stone in the erstwhile palace and fortress foundations area even as late as 1903-04.
also mentioned was a detail most people know, how the temple uter walls were dismantled for lower anaicut construction.
.... but GKC, when mentioned people get furious with SPS who refused to let most of us get down from the tour bus citing tanjore was more important.
Satish : The measurement is of question as you said, it is kind of a curiosity as the Americans and a few others measure in lbs / miles etc against the british way of measuring. Mode digging in this is possibly needed.
I have always wondered how the british could have maintained a small team of soldiers in a small town like maduranthakam ages before. I think they were better at management than us at that point in time ( I believe even now we can learn that art from them).
The Brits, although they belong to the European Common Market, steadfastly refuse to follow the kilogram/meter standard adopted by the rest of Europe for centuries. So, they still prefer to use pounds and feet causing a lot of inconvenience to the business community. In schools though they are teaching kilograms/meter - so we all hope that the in the next few generations they will eventually understand the metric system.
Hi This gazette we are all referring to was printed in 1903-04. i wonder what the system of measurement was in the non- british world? I think the french used the gram system in the 1800's. is that ight. and what about the US. venketesh
There is an attempt to secularise the Hindu identity be it Dharma, History etc. An offshoot of this is the need to secularize the Tamil Hindu rulers and their chieftains including the recent polygars. Hence the attempt to convert the Hindu rulers to Nadars and then christians and then ultimately to send them to Rome or Mecca as is being done for the Chera rulers.
Discounting the hyperbole, obvious bias and regionalism in the three articles, important information can be still gleaned from it.
It has to be remembered that the regions in extreme south Tamil Nadu and south Kerala extending from approx Tirunelveli to Thiruvananthapuram has been the laboratory of Christianity(Nadars) since the arrival of British. The Nadars are not the dominant group in this region though.
To understand the various caste conflicts in TN one has to find the hidden hand of the Nadars first then only everything will make sense.
The question whether Dravidian ideology/movement was hatched in this laboratory is still an open one.
Are Nadars the trojan horse for Christianity(rule) in TN.
A scholarly analysis needs to be done about the christva(Nadar) laboratory as the TN establishment and Media would not do it.
No doubt we did discuss Casteism / Non Secular issues once a while - mostly as passing remarks. Detail discussion were kept in abeyance since they are bound some section of members and a vast chunk is silently reading mails.